Who to emulate


#1

if you could have the mechanics of anyone in the majors who would it be and why?

i would choose john papelbon… no idea why


#2

I’ve taken Chein ming wang because i myself feel that the way to throw is nice and smooth with alot of momentum and explosion.

If you look at my delivery it’s like chein ming wang kind of now since I made the adjustments in my BACKYARD.


#3

I would not emulate Papelbon because he has a stiff, straight front leg and falls off the mound.


#4

i just realized that like an hour ago

now im studying/copying kevin brown :slight_smile:

hes in the video library ^


#5

be a leader not a follower the wise words to me by RAW TALENT that helped me change my mechanics and realize im trying to be someone im not mechanics wise.


#6

No one. Like Ristar apparently just found out, you want to maximize the important parts of pitching, and the kinetic chain in the most efficient, least-stressful way.
I’ve kind of tried to copy Randy J’s hip movement to the plate. Weavers late shoulder rotation, and Roger clemens stride, among other stuff.


#7

I wish i could throw like Tim lincecum but i am not gonna waste all of my time learning his mechanics. Well it is not wasting time but if it is not broke don’t fix it.


#8

I don’t like the term IF IT"S NOT BROKE DOWN FIX IT and the reason is look if some one has bad mechanics and is getting outs why wouldn’t you want to make him less injury pron.

Take kerry wood and mark prior for example they have worrable mechancis and now that they are hurt they are trying to change it. So change your mechanics if they aren’t good.


#9

“Take kerry wood and mark prior for example they have worrable mechancis and now that they are hurt they are trying to change it.”

This is a myth!

Look, Kerry Wood and Mark Prior were the most feared duo in MLB for at least 2 years, Prior seems to be the main whipping boy because Tom House complimented his mechs, this was all the ammo his compitition needed to discredit him (In their eyes), horrible mechs would have not allowed him out of LL, not to become one of the most dominant pitchers in NCAA history, and swept to the very top of the heap of MLB pitchers. Now he has had arm injuries, if you are foolish enough to assign the reason behind the injuries to mechanics, you have a very small understanding as to what it takes to get to that level. Of course every stinkin person who runs this ridiculus smack forgets that it is a little difficult to throw after taking a line drive off of the elbow that causes crush damage. Kerry Wood by all accounts I have looked into, had severe over-use issues, but if crappy mechs get you the single game k record (tie) and the dominance he showed and can still potentially show, then just how many folks do you think would get in line for those rotten mechs…it is absurd on the face of it.
Also another point that I’ve never heard considered is this…For all of those people who say they have such terrible mechs, the implication is that the multi-billion dollar franchise of MLB is too stupid to recognise these “horrible” mechs on pitchers that are worth millions and millions of dollars potentially. Come on, any given team would snatch up anyone who could assist these guys to get “better”, including the wise and Great Dick Mills, or Nyman or even House, they have DEEP Pockets and could hire Dr. James Andrews to baby sit them if necessary…for chump change in their world. No, many things can cause the problems these guys have, it is just convienient and contraversial to make your marketing points based on your derision of your competition. If a person spends a little more time other than listening to the likes of Will Carroll and Dick Mills, you may find more realistic and meaningful answers not slighted by marketing crappola and competitive concerns.


#10

As far as who to emulate? How about Pheen? If your mechs need work, get it done. As an individual your body is going to go where it does, it will be similar in some ways to many because well there really isn’t too much of a difference between pitchers in the delivery, just varience of a slight degree (Higher or lower knee lift, step back or not, it’s all just getting to the power position and delivering). Forcing your body to do it as someone else may in fact prove in some way injurious but the real key is how this is detracting from the training and work that you should be working on.
I would say to Ristar for example, that if he took all of the time he’s wasting remaking his mechs every two weeks by what Mills pet trick is and put it into making his own mechanics as efficient as possible he would reach his speed goal much faster and be able to build the muscle structure necessary to support those mechs if he did it…Which is totally ironic because Mills is the original guy who preaches not wasting training time on “worthless drills” because training time is so precious. Yet his student is running around in this perpetual “Chinese Firedrill” changing his mechanics at about the frequency that he changes his underwear…well so to speak. :shock:


#11

i like dontrelle willis’s mechanics. i know he’s probably debatable but i think he generates a ton of momentum from that high leg kick and by getting his hips moving toward home plate right when he starts his motion. i haven’t copied him completely but i definitely use elements of his motion.


#12

Lets get a couple things right JD, 1st off I might be a student of dick mills doesn’t mean I have changed my mechancis that much only little adjustments to help me throw better. And I’ve only made one big adjustment recently and have found something that works for me. And the time spent on adjusting my mechanics was well spent time I needed to find a delivery that was natural to my body type.

Now Everyone needs to leave Dick Mills alone you DON’T EVEN KNOW HIM. He has the same views as alot of people and yes he has changed BUT HE HAS RESEARCH TO BACK THAT UP.

He has hired people that proved that Weighted-balls, weight training and things like drills will not help with the mechanics. Half the stuff dicks say’s is a reflection on the DOCTORS RESEARCH. SO DON"T GO JUDGING PEOPLE LEFT AND RIGHT.

DICK MILLS HAS RESEARCH YOU DON’T


#13

[quote=“jdfromfla”][i]
Also another point that I’ve never heard considered is this…For all of those people who say they have such terrible mechs, the implication is that the multi-billion dollar franchise of MLB is too stupid to recognise these “horrible” mechs on pitchers that are worth millions and millions of dollars potentially. Come on, any given team would snatch up anyone who could assist these guys to get “better”, including the wise and Great Dick Mills, or Nyman or even House, they have DEEP Pockets and could hire Dr. James Andrews to baby sit them if necessary…for chump change in their world. No, many things can cause the problems these guys have, it is just convienient and contraversial to make your marketing points based on your derision of your competition. If a person spends a little more time other than listening to the likes of Will Carroll and Dick Mills, you may find more realistic and meaningful answers not slighted by marketing crappola and competitive concerns.[/quote]

Well said! MLB has grown from a $1 billion enterprise to a $6 billion enterprise in the time Bud Selig has been at the reins. Individual teams are worth more than $300 million. Heck, some teams’ payrolls are that … for one season!

A lot of factors are in play with these pitchers. It’s easy to sit on the fringe (ahem, Will Carroll) and pick on just one thing. But that’s like buying a lemon for a used car and blaming the tires for your problems instead of looking under the hood and getting to the real root of the issue. (I honestly don’t know why big league pitchers have been having so many injuries in recent years, but, in my mind, I really think it has to do with the enormous emphasis these guys are placing on weight-room workouts. So while they’re in there throwing around some impressive weights and becoming great athletes, they’re not spending as much time on the field working on their pitching.)

And RISTAR: I think it’s great that you’re doing the Dick Mills thing. Most kids are out there playing video games or hanging out at the mall – and you’re working on ways to develop your pitching. Good job for that!


#14

“the time spent on adjusting my mechanics was well spent time I needed to find a delivery that was natural to my body type.”

Time will tell, and be assured I have only good thoughts to your future success, we all need to assess honestly to be able to improve and I have respect for your efforts, belief that you will ultimately succeed (Given that you continue in your efforts). I don’t see how this effects the logic of what I said, but I just want you to know that I and many folks who love our sport, enjoy watching a kid that is as motivated and dedicated as you are.
What you do though Ristar is put yourself in the position as an expert, based on what you learn from whomever you learn, now it is fine to think that, believe it and profess it, just don’t expect to go unchallenged once you start making those pronouncements in a public forum such as this. Dick Mills does the same thing, I don’t doubt his skills and abilities, his knowledge or the fact that he is an excellent buisnessman. What I will attempt to do though, is point out, to whomever cares to listen, that he IS a businessman, as such he has to differentiate himself from other, similar businessmen/people in order to drive the customers that he feels he needs in order to make his business operate at the level of profit necessary for him to continue and grow. Mr. Mills does this as the “Rebel”, which is ok but one must understand that to do this via his formula, he has chosen to make very definate statements, some of absolutes (Wasted development time etc) and others that are designed to discredit his competition (Priors “poor” mechanics makes Tom House stupid…“don’t listen to him” and “He doesn’t know how the body throws the ball”…things like that).
So there you have it, nobody was particularly attacking Dick Mills, or you for that matter, I was simply pointing out that over the past say 50 of your posts you’ve been saying certain things that imo need someone to counter point with another perspective.
My research comes from here and there, I know little in comparison to some I’ve met and many who have contributed to this board, so I am not offended by your final statement, those that wish to debate with me are always very welcome and respected, we need to flesh these things out in order to consider this art at its very highest levels.


#15

JD,

Excellent comments all around but especially about Prior and Wood. Too much of what is said about those guys is nothing more than gossip.


#16

You can blame some of it on the city of Chicago in the form of the media, they wreck a player when the player disappoints, they said Ryno was dieing from aids and retired because he wanted to die quietly (Imagine how his wife and 3 kids felt?), they said Michael Jordan had to quit because he was caught gambling, which is why he went to another sport, They even started nasty rumors about poor Walter Payton…like they were po’ed cause he up and died, they said vicious things about Sammy’s wife and how “impossible” Sammy was in the clubhouse…oh yah don’t cross the Trib or the Sun Times…in their mind or reality


#17

Steve if it wasn’t for you and this web site I wouldn’t have ever met Raw Talent and Dm that have helped me stay concistent with the nice smooth explosvie mechanics. You made it easy to talk about baseball.

Alot of people don’t understand why I put so much effort into baseball. It’s my true love And Im determined to be the best player that I can be that’s why I’ve changed the mechanics till I like them.


#18

I will preface this by saying sorry for the long post, I just started writing and kept going with all my thoughts, I do need to work on more short and do the point, although I didn’t see anything worth deleting to shorten the post.


I find this quite an interesting point, and quite possible/accurate really. Either jd or dm have mentioned the idea that increased arm mass would make it harder and more stressful to decelerate the arm. Which could be an explanation for increased wear and tear on tendons.

One thing though is I honestly don’t see how squatting and lunging could really ever negatively effect your arm health. If anything improve it because you gain better motor control and the rest of your body is more equipped to withstand the forces created.

That being said, I’d say an insane amount of players still have so little understanding of weight training, the best thing they could possibly do for themselves is to invest in something like TuffCuff or various other offseason training manuals. Almost everyone I know is on the bench press and curls plan, which I don’t consider a legit or beneficial weightlifting routine. The mentality is if you need to add some weight its all about lifting upper body, they fail to realize most weight is in your lower half.
Guys ask for routines and such in the Strength and Conditioning section which is fine, but I don’t think many of them realize how complex the whole thing is, and how many hours people put into designing programs.

I’m curious, do you feel guys are destroying their arms via lifting in the amateur ranks or do you think their creating the damage once they reach pro ball. I understand that teams now employ permanent strength and conditioning coaches and would think that would help, but I imagine you could speak from experience.

A guy from NC State, Andrew Brackman, was featured on the cover of the newspaper because he lost velocity over the offseason. Brackman attributed that to weight training. I’m curious though how much of his training was supervised and well planned, and how much throwing he did. I felt it was totally illogical for the boy to try and bulk up anyways, he was 6’10" throwing 99mph as a junior. What could he have expected to gain from heavy lifting, he’s already near the body’s capacity to throw a ball hard. Although I won’t ever find answers to my questions I’m extremely interested in finding out how much bench pressing he did, and how regularly he was throwing.
If he was throwing regularly I would think it would be a big flashing red light when his velocity started to decline, so I have my doubts.

Now for me, I feel like I am far different then the case of say Andrew Brackman. I’m 6’1" 160lbs. I was 150lbs before I started my offseason lifting, and have improved both power at the plate and velocity on the mound. I’m still extremely underweight, and feel like the most beneficial way to add good size is through a well designed weight training program.

However, unlike most of my peers I recognize that so much more goes into an offseason including, plyos, medicine ball, nutrition, sleep, mechanics, pitching from a mound, long toss, etc. I think that’s a big difference, and a reason why I have progressed with no arm trouble at all.


I still feel that arms are mostly destroyed from playing so many games per year. If I had wanted to I could have played, spring, summer, fall, and indoor winter baseball. Which would be all intense game pitching at full effort. That’s just to much for a developing body but plenty of kids to it.

Tommy John said in an interview that he thinks the amount of playing today is rediculous and kids need a break. He felt his arm lasted as long as it did because he lived in Indiana. As a kid he’d play baseball, but once the fall started he’d be playing basketball and not touch a baseball for a few months.


#19

Makes sence