I have heard that 80% of velocity comes from hip/shoulder seperation and the rest is momentum. I have no clue if this is true could you tell me what you think?
It’s all semantics anyway. Muscles make you move, mechanics help you make the most of the power your generate.
well I think the way you should interpret it is that the power STARTS with hip/shoulder separation and not much more is added as the energy is transferred through the body.
Something like that
RI, that is interesting. Please let us know where you heard that (I’d like to find out more).
Pitching is somewhat like a whip. If you have never used a whip, you can apply a lot of force and energy and nothing happens. But if you are skilled with the whip, very little energy and force can create a tremendous explosion of power. I guess that’s where mechanics come in, because taught properly, you can create a lot of energy (velocity).
I’d too would like to know where you read/heard that as well, I can’t recall hearing anyone I’ve talked to about this topic giving a number of that quantity.
Bum that’s a great analogy!
I have heard that from someone on this site idk who can’t remember and also I have heard it somewhere else on the web I want to stay NPA but idk.
I think it might be true because someone like dan haren who is slow and doesn’t get great momentum but gets great hip/shoulder seperation and throws pretty hard. I think momentum counts but you can be up down and out and still get it done the more efficent way though is to drift and lift.
I’ve always believed that power is originated ground up, nothing happens until both feet are planted and the power position is acheived, only at that point can all of the potential generated from seperation and momentum be applied…As I’ve had pointed out to me, this is why you see the hardest throwers tear the mound up.
It is unscientific, anecdotal and I’ll never be Mills but well I’ll stick to it.
do you think hip/shoulder seperation and timing after plant go for 80% of MPH and that 20% is momentum and direction?
Look at Dan Haren
or there are people like michael main that go to a balance point then speed it up down the mound into good hip/shoulder seperation.
No Ristar just what I said, the pre-plant is storing and post is releasing, try it on one foot. Even that hoppy guy on the momentum pitching thread got both feet on the earth before releasing…being in proper position with the most stored potential energy gives you the opportunity, given efficient release, for your highest velocity and efficiency.
I of course disclaim this as possible hooohaa, but it sure sounds right to me. :roll:
There are some pitchers who cant create the separation with slow movements to the plate, such has Ted Lilly and Scott Proctor. If you have a lanky frame, you will naturally have more separation and flexibility than someone who is stocky.
You don’t need more momentum to increase velocity. You need quicker hip rotation. That isn’t necessarily created by more momentum. You can push off the rubber as fast as you want and stride as far as you want, it doesn’t guarantee quicker hips.
The opening of the front leg and “closing” of the back leg is what powers the hips. The muscles that open and close the legs are the hip flexors.
That’s what I have been working for to get in the right position at landing with a nice braced leg and my back foot shoe laces down at landing so that my hips have rotated alot and I can apply a lot of force.
Very hard to get the shoe laces to point down at landing.
RiStar you flip flop more than a neutral party in a presidential race. It’s unbelievable, on top of that your only 15 years old. I’ve gone on here and seen you pump up the momentum idea for the last month at least. You seemed bought into it. Now you want to be Dan Haren and drop and drive and use the up down and out?? I don’t think I can ever take you seriously on here again. You go from one side to the complete opposite extreme overnight. Did you even give momentum a chance?
Personally I’ve used both methods at a high level and I will say that by gaining momentum you will have better timing, you will likely get more extension, as well is achieve full trunk flexion forward. But hey, what do I know. Good luck with your drop and driving for the next month RiStar.
Hammer you have alot of things wrong. I was never into Momentum Pitching only trying to get more momentum in my wind-up. I also want momentum still but if I’m not strong enough or if I can’t get into a good position then I will try to do both like right now which is working for me I can repeat my mechanics which is the most important thing before I could not repeat them using as much momentum as I was.
As xx84 said you need to be in a good position to get the best out of your body and right now getting as much momentum as I was doesn’t get me in the right position. So I have adjusted very little and everything seems to be coming along but still have a long way to go.
I’m not trying to be completely like Dan Haren only taking on part hip/shoulder seperation. I used him as an example of a pitcher that doesn’t get momentum that great at first but picks it up and still gets good MPH. I have not changed anything I’m still working on the hip moving out while staying balanced I DO NOT WANT TO BE DAN HAREN OR DROP AND DRIVE.
Hammer I have not changed view on anything this post was to find everyones view on do you think 80% of velocity comes from hip/shoulder seperation and timing after plant and 20% from momentum. That is not my numbers for % only something I have heard before. [/quote]
go to the pitching mechanics forum and watch the video on the 11 yr old thread and tell me what you think. i’m interested in your thoughts.
Personally, I believe the best way to get maximum momentum is to drift and lift, and also drive. Although you can’t see the tension in those pitchers’ back legs on pitching clips, I’d be willing to bet Lincecum and Nolan Ryan and pretty much all those guys drive towards the plate, as well as drifting the hips forward. Beckett is a great example. I originally thought he was just a drop and driver, but then by looking at the side view he does let his hips slide forward even before knee lift.
Just my two cents.