Velocity Development Program @ Driveline Baseball

I don’t think kyle or any other poster has ever made the statement that arm health is not important. We all understand that without being on the field ability is useless. Again you present no evidence to your idea that weighted balls cause damage to a pitching arm just an unjustified claim.

I think numerous posters will also attest to the fact that velocity can be trained and accomplished through mechanical adjustments and strength training.

[quote]Velocity isn’t everything. Arm health is much more important. Sure you are preaching velocity, but did ever talk about pitching mechanics, arm health, or even pitching control. You can’t train velocity, you either have it or you don’t, period.
[/quote]

Oh, that’s funny. You can absolutely train velocity. Ask Paul Nyman, or better yet, ask LankyLefty if you can train it. He went from a soft-tossing lefty to a rostered spot on a big-time ACC D1 school by adding 20 mph over many years of hard training and research.

As for the arm health, that’s even more hilarious. If you had done even a bit of research, you’d know that I’m building the first open-source baseball-centered biomechanics lab using high-speed video in the United States. I have hired a biomechanical engineer intern to help me build the lab and configure our software - we already have preliminary results in from our first batch of test pitchers.

What original research have you done on this subject outside of reading bodybuilding.com or parroting what various organizations have to say?

As far as my “certifications,” I have taken and passed the online pitching mechanics course by the NPA and have read nearly every baseball-specific (or throwing-related) research paper published in the last 30 years; the last one I finished up was a dissertation by someone from the University of Akron who published many of ASMI’s reports. This paper is helping me design our entry/exit reports and helps us compare the different research methodologies between ASMI and other labs.

I’m eagerly awaiting your next pointless attack.

You don’t mean to be rude? I call BS. If it were up to me you’d already be gone. Steven must be feeling generous. Your antagonism and foul language was completely uncalled for and completely inappropriate. And, I guarantee you, backpedaling now ain’t gonna buy you much.

That is just your opinion. There are others, notably some experts in the pitching world that would disagree with you. This is not to say arm health isn’t important. It it’s not to say you can’t injure yourself with weighted balls if you don’t know what you’re doing. Weighted balls are more of a last resort. Mechanics, strength and conditioning, etc. all need to be in place before taking on a weighted ball program.

okay. So ya its good to have debates, because we are both learning stuff from it. I have learned a little from you kyleb, but i still think that u have stuff to learn as well.

Lanky lefty might have gained 20mph. But how old was he, what was his height, weight, when he first begin to add on the mph. Because it could have just been genetics catching up on him.

Lets say he was 16 at the time and lets say in 4 years he gained 20mph. Whatever just an example. Anyways your body doesn’t stop growing until you are 20-22 i think. So it could have just been his genetics.

You can’t say you can teach velocity.

Tell me how Tim Lincecum has clocked over 100mph at one time. He is only 5’9 160lbs i believe. Was he taught velocity, by gaining over 300lbs on his deadlift, squat, row, or whatever training assesment you have at your facility.

Of course not. Its genetics. His dad was a great ball player too, if you never knew that. You should read the article(great article)

Thats one example of how you can’t teach velocity. All i want to state is that by you posting on the bottom of your page gain 4-7mph. Thats crap. Don’t say that, because you don’t actually know what the gains are coming from. It could be natural genetics catching up on them and they might have gained 10mph if it weren’t from you.

Who knows.

Basically u can’t teach velocity. You either have it or don’t. Your genetics will catch up to you. If you can teach velcoity. Then shouldn’t everyone be able to touch at least 95mph. Thats what you are stating.

I would say, technically, you are correct: you can’t TEACH velocity. What you can do however is teach someone how to use his/her body better. You can teach them how to become more coordinated and explosive. You can teach them better mechanics. As kids grow, they become stronger, their bodies mature - and the kids who continue to work at pitching will often gain velocity as they learn to move their bodies faster and more fluently. They learn to get their bodies out to a full stretch, they learn to brace their bodies better, they learn to get later arm action - the list goes on.

Having just spent 4 days with Roger from this site, Tom House and Jamie Evans from the NPA, as well as other baseball coaches and PT’s from around the country I am very confident that the perception of velocity training is about to change. Underload overload training beyond the current proven 6-5-4 oz. protocols is showing tremendous promise.

Furthermore research regarding preconceived notions about the adapatability of “genetically predetermined” fast twitch-slow twitch muscle fibers is also progressing. There is enough evidence, at least presented by some in the NPA forum, to indicate that what we thought was “concrete” today may not be so pre-determined.

A longer post on my blog is forthcoming, but here’s some entry/exit velocities from our training program (including under/overweight balls):

Entry Velocities (December 2010)
-Alex M: 61 MPH (12 years old)
-Travis T: 58 MPH (13 years old)
-Ted W: 63 MPH (15 years old)

Exit Velocities (February 2011)
-Alex M: 63 MPH (+2)
-Travis T: 62 MPH (+5)
-Ted W: 71 MPH (+8 )

Travis should be 63 MPH, my fault!

[quote=“kyleb”]A longer post on my blog is forthcoming, but here’s some entry/exit velocities from our training program (including under/overweight balls):

Entry Velocities (December 2010)
-Alex M: 61 MPH (12 years old)
-Travis T: 58 MPH (13 years old)
-Ted W: 63 MPH (15 years old)

Exit Velocities (February 2011)
-Alex M: 63 MPH (+2)
-Travis T: 62 MPH (+5)
-Ted W: 71 MPH (+8 )[/quote]
What is the average change in velocity from enter to exit? Or is this the only velocities you have recorded?

Kyle…

Things are coming along, nicely. Great job up there…pretty soon Steven’s map is going to have a lot more “black” from the Pacific Northwest! Great job and thanks for sharing with the Forum. Your posts are always appreciated. Your Velocity Development Program looks awesome. How much for a plane ticket from Boston to Seattle? :lol: :lol:

[quote=“CSOleson”][quote=“kyleb”]A longer post on my blog is forthcoming, but here’s some entry/exit velocities from our training program (including under/overweight balls):

Entry Velocities (December 2010)
-Alex M: 61 MPH (12 years old)
-Travis T: 58 MPH (13 years old)
-Ted W: 63 MPH (15 years old)

Exit Velocities (February 2011)
-Alex M: 63 MPH (+2)
-Travis T: 62 MPH (+5)
-Ted W: 71 MPH (+8 )[/quote]
What is the average change in velocity from enter to exit? Or is this the only velocities you have recorded?[/quote]

This is the first actual “case study” done, though an older HS client training with me has gained a lot of velocity over a few years (tough to say how much my training helped since puberty and growing helped a ton) and we have one-off pitching lessons guys gaining a few ticks. We haven’t really put hard data down though, and that’s what I plan on doing going forward.

Boston to Seattle can be pricey, gettingthere :slight_smile: But it might be well worth it!

Something I would be interested in seeing is how much the subject physically grows during this time period in both height and weight, and how much body fat % is changing during this time period as well.

Maybe you could do a study using two groups, both see a pitcher instructor once a week for 2 months, but have one group using the weighted balls to see what the difference in gained velocity is over that time period. Just a suggestion.

Something I would be interested in seeing is how much the subject physically grows during this time period in both height and weight, and how much body fat % is changing during this time period as well.

Maybe you could do a study using two groups, both see a pitcher instructor once a week for 2 months, but have one group using the weighted balls to see what the difference in gained velocity is over that time period. Just a suggestion.[/quote]

I would, but that would be shortchanging our clients. I might sign up people interested in a study but no other training to analyze that, however. Sadly, it probably would not be publishable since DeRenne has most of the original research on this type of study.

Didn’t think of that. :roll:

Another quick update: Eli (age 17) went from 75 MPH to 81 MPH in 3 months of training. Perhaps more exciting is that he threw 81 MPH with a sprained right ankle!

He threw the 3 oz. ball at 85 MPH once and consistently was around 81-82 MPH with it.

We’re hoping to have him gain another 15 pounds (go to 190 lbs at 5’11"), increase his strength a bit (he already can deadlift 425; did this when he was 169 pounds), and get him throwing 84-85 MPH consistently heading into his freshman year of college. (Currently undecided, waiting on academic scholarships.)

Exciting times at Driveline Baseball! :slight_smile:

kyleb, do you have velocity increases for your older training group?

Just that one - the 17 year old went from 75 to 81.

We are starting the in-season training period with two guys you could call “older.” Eli (17 years old, 81 MPH peak fastball) and Tim (17 years old, 82 MPH peak fastball). I’ll keep this thread updated with the results.