Tim Lincecum sez he pushes... link to video

If link doesnt work just go to youtube and search MLB 2K9 Tim Lincecum Video- MLB.com @ the 1:49 point he instructs his pupil to push off the rubber w/ the back leg.

I was reading thru a previous thread re: pushing & Lincecum was the sample choice in reference to push/or not to push.

I ran across this video looking for others that had his father discussing Tim’s mechanics & he clearly states a “push” when describing mechanics & initiating the stride.

I have read Tim Lincecum interviews where he states push as well.

It can be debated as to whether they “think” he pushes vs actually pushing, but no doubt he has been taught & in this case teaches “pushing” off the rubber.

I never felt a push, tried to push or teach to push but I think its clear he pushes when he rotates his right leg over… which he does earlier than most.

Don’t know if this adds fuel or clears anything up, but when it comes to Lincecum my son & I are HUGE fans & we dont try to emulate anything he does. He’s just different than anyone I’ve ever seen (flexibility & athleticism are off the charts) & what he does vs what is conventional or recommended is an unfair test.

He really just had to explain to her the basics. I dont think that it was meant to teach the kids of America. Like he said it was his first time teaching his mechanics and he didn’t know what to say. It was more meant for her to learn how to pitch for those 5 minutes. That girl was lucky ass hell though.

LT explains it pretty clearly in my opinion (thought i have studied extensive biomechanics in discus throws, shot putting, javelins, and pitching)

the idea of pushing off the ground through the catcher to initiate the hips and core to slingshot the arm

Somebody explain how to push off the rubber, the ground, or any surface, without straightening the leg that does the pushing.

Then explain how to do a push-up without straightening the angle at your elbows.

a proper way to say it is pushing on the ground to start the kinetic chain

after full drive, the leg will turndown (straighten) and pivot the back hip to homeplate which torques the torso/shoulder to catcher

nice words, drewski, but they don’t describe what really happens. If you push off of a surface with your post leg, your post leg must straighten.

re: “after full drive, the leg will turndown (straighten) and pivot the back hip to …”

-------But, 3-D motion analyis of hundreds of pitchers has shown that the post leg does not straighten. In fact, some pitchers tend to collapse the post leg somewhat, which is just the opposite of a “push” off of the ground.

2-D video from a single angle can be somewhat misleading because, as a pitcher pivots on his post foot, you don’t see the angle at the knee with equal clarity during all parts of the motion. Even so, careful study of 2-D slo-mo video of pitchers from a single angle does also show that the leg doesn’t straighten.

I think that the kinesthetic feeling of the “push-off” really arises from the leg-lift: That is, the pitcher’s entire weight, which at first is supported over two legs, is shifted completely onto the post-leg as the pitcher’s body is moving toward the plate. If the pitcher “pushed-off” with that post-leg it would straighten and he would jump from the surface.

Instead, it just feels like a “push-off” because the post-leg must exert more force to maintain his posture against gravity.

lol ok idk what you mean, show me a video of ur thoughts

watch oswalt from :25 to :31
the leg straightens and/while thrusts the back hip… btw yes thanks for my word usage comment… i feel it its impotant to use words that apply to a feeling of force, thrusting is different that pushing for example… it makes things easier to understand a feeling vs an idea

The Oswalt vid is fine for this discussion–it is a clip I took at a Giants vs Astros game during 2009. (Randy Johnson was the Giants pitcher that day, and he tore his labrum…not from pitching but with a really bad swing at the plate).

Oswalt starts from a pretty tall position–it looks to me as though he drops down a little, by increasing the bend in his post-leg, after about 0:27.

His post-leg clearly pivots but it is not straightening to my eyes…that is, the angle at his knee is not getting closer to 180 degrees as he pivots. If anything, the angle at his knee looks like it may get a little smaller in the early part of the stride…that cannot be if he is “pushing off”.

The one problem with this video is, in 2-D if you pivot a fixed angle through a few degrees of rotation you can fall prey to the optical illusion that the angle has straightened. You can prove this easily: Make an “L” with the thumb and index finger of your right hand and hold your hand out in front of you so that you can see that the angle is really 90 degrees.

Without changing the “L” angle at all, now turn your entire hand slowly to the right (clockwise) by 90 degrees…not only does your perception of the angle change as you do this, when your hand has sufficiently rotated (90 degrees) you won’t be able to see any of the original angle between your thumb and index finger, even though you know that it is still making an “L”.

To me, the difference between “pushing off” and what most pitchers actually do (not “pushing-off”) is interesting because I have seen a few pitchers who actually do push off the rubber in their motion. Pitchers who do that are unmistakable–they literally show a small “jump” in their motion.

im still confused on why we are discussing the drive leg and you are talking about the post leg?

some post legs straighten (verlander) some have flex (maddux), its all preference and what you can maximize your body to throw

i do not feel jumping = pushing… it is more of a thrust if anything… like punching, you push down into the ground with your drive foot to torque your core and deliever a straight punch

PS: save any arguments for the analogy of boxing, its actually a similar movement to throwing, still moving linear with rotational torque

re:"im still confused on why we are discussing the drive leg and you are talking about the post leg? "

----Stride leg is lifted off the ground and remains off the ground until stride-foot is planted out in front…there is no push there, so I’m not sure why you would refer to it as the “drive leg”.

The post-leg remains in contact with the ground from beginning of delivery 'til at least the stride is complete.

“Drive leg” isn’t my preferred term but, if it was, I’m guessing that it would refer to the leg that supposedly does the “pushing-off” from the ground, no?

no offense but… duh

how can you possibly drive to the plate with the stride/lead leg?

drewski, these are your words, not mine:

"im still confused on why we are discussing the drive leg and you are talking about the post leg? "

------------Now I’m confused. So…you are aware that we’ve been talking about what pitchers do with their post-leg all along, or not?

The post-leg and its biomechanical actions don’t change just because you decide to call it something different, like drive leg.

lol it doesnt matter what you call it, if you understand the biomechanics you would know what leg drives/pushes/jumps/lunges where

edit: btw you are aware this thread is about the leg residing on the rubber correct?

This video clip might help you drewski.

ya great vid, when it does the slide show you see the actual thrust forward