Tim Lincecum could throw harder.?


#1

Do you think tim lincecum could throw harder if he added strength/mass to his lower half? 3P sports, a very reputable pitching organization, states that Pitching Power= speed+ strength. If you look at tim lincecum average fastball velocity on Pitchfx his heater in 2007 averaged out at 93.6, 2008 its avg. was 94.0, and this year its 92.5. It would be interesting to see if timmy added say 5 lbs of muscle to his lower half, if he could throw harder.


#2

In my opinion, no. It’s probably mostly effort-based for him. For god’s sake, he threw 101 mph with one of his fballs, what more do you want?
Earlier he threw his fastball a little faster because that was the pitch he relied on more, now he added changeup+curveball so he’s just as effective.

If you told him now to throw fastball 90% and changeup 10% of the time, I’m sure he would focus more on fastball speed.

Just my $.02


#3

look what happened to pedro. if a guy is giving those results, you don’t mess with it


#4

I agree with Lanky, I don’t think it has anything to do with weight. Pedro used to throw faster when he was lighter.

Lincecum is slowing down now on his fastballs, possibly because of throwing too much/fatigue or maybe he isn’t working on his overall conditioning as hard as when he started.


#5

LOCATION … LOCATION … LOCATION. IT’S ALL ABOUT LOCATION.

It’s about the best of both worlds for the pitcher = pitch selection & game day feel, and the lowest of both worlds for the batter = least hittable pitch & weakest tendencies during the last two weeks.

The men at the top of the food-chain know this, depend on this - LOCATION, LOCATION, with everything sent down range.

Coach B.


#6

If Tim threw any harder it is a good chance that he wouldn’t pitch past the age of 30. His frame is so small that generating that much tension on his arm would be too much. I think it’s already too much because his back is starting to give him problems. I do think he was smart taking something off his fastball and concentrating on his off speed pitches.


#7

He was very wise to do that—take something off his fast ball and concentrate on his off-speed stuff. Not only will that prolong his career, it will make him a better pitcher, rather than just a thrower who’s asking for trouble. I’ve seen a few guys who throw 100, 101 MPH all the time, and they end up on the disabled list because the strain is just too much for them. Even a big hulk like C.C. Sabathia doesn’t rely on his fast ball all the time—he has a power slider and a very good changeup to go with his fast ball, and the best thing about him is that he locates his pitches.
That’s the whole point. Speed isn’t everything. It’s control and command, and Lincecum was smart to focus on that. 8)


#8

[quote=“Zita Carno”]
That’s the whole point. Speed isn’t everything. It’s control and command, and Lincecum was smart to focus on that. 8)[/quote]

It isn’t when you have it. 8)


#9

People love to go on these forums and make posts about how pitching is about command and mixing pitches and not so much about velocity…

Velocity allows a pitcher to get away with more, so that your command doesnt have to be pin point every pitch of every outing. We see with big leaguers that its unrealistic to command every pitch right where you want it every start.

Velocity also allows for a sharp breaking pitch with depth whereas a slower breaking ball 90% of the time won’t have the same characteristics.

Velocity also allows for opportunity. You would be crazy to think scouts/college coaches don’t grant more opportunity to the harder throwers, and rightfully so as they have a higher ceiling as a player


#10

As does movement, and deception. If you can hit spots with movement and deception with a good fastball to keep people honest then you can do just as well or better than someone who throws 100mph. If the ball isn’t straight, doesn’t look the same or is easy to read where it will end up you can do just as well as the guy throwing the cheese. People just like to lean towards people who throw hard, because it’s what gets peoples attention and is one of the reasons you made this topic because people just want to throw harder and harder.


#11

There’s no such thing as a “straight” 100 mph fastball. Anyone who throws that hard has to have crazy rotation and at the least decent arm-side run. Throwing hard garners attention because it is harder to hit period. Pedro was better when he threw hard, Joba was better when he threw hard, JJ Putz used to be in the mid 90s in Seattle and became mediocre in his short time with the mets with a lesser fastball. You see examples of this everyday, “his velocity was down today and it lessened the gap between his offspeed” or “his velocity was down and he seemed fatigue and didn’t have good control”. Sure, someone else’s 92 might be tougher than your 95, but you can’t worry about someone else’s movement. The way the ball comes out of your hand is the way it comes out. You can’t replicate someone else’s arm action unless you’re willing to break down your mechanics and build them up from scratch. For yourself, you will always be a better a pitcher throwing at your peak velocity. It’s no guarantee that taking off on your fastball will better your location and give you 4 more inches of movement.

The bottom line is get to your top velocity, learn to control it and dominate.


#12

There’s no such thing as a “straight” 100 mph fastball. Anyone who throws that hard has to have crazy rotation and at the least decent arm-side run. Throwing hard garners attention because it is harder to hit period. Pedro was better when he threw hard, Joba was better when he threw hard, JJ Putz used to be in the mid 90s in Seattle and became mediocre in his short time with the mets with a lesser fastball. You see examples of this everyday, “his velocity was down today and it lessened the gap between his offspeed” or “his velocity was down and he seemed fatigue and didn’t have good control”. Sure, someone else’s 92 might be tougher than your 95, but you can’t worry about someone else’s movement. The way the ball comes out of your hand is the way it comes out. You can’t replicate someone else’s arm action unless you’re willing to break down your mechanics and build them up from scratch. For yourself, you will always be a better a pitcher throwing at your peak velocity. It’s no guarantee that taking off on your fastball will better your location and give you 4 more inches of movement.

The bottom line is get to your top velocity, learn to control it and dominate.[/quote]

You’re right! But the thing you forgot to mention is that these guys that throw 100mph, usually can’t locate their pitches well. While you may be able to get away with things that slower pitchers can’t, someone always gets lucky, adjusts and that’s when that 100mph heater goes over the fence.

I think what people are trying to say here is that if you can’t control your velocity take some off so you CAN hit your spots. Greg Maddux had the ABILITY to throw 93mph when he entered the major leagues. But he got guys out when he took some off (like 90-91mph) and hit his spots.

Sure, a 100mph is very tough to hit, but if you can’t locate it, a good hitter will let it go by, or take it over the fence when you finally get it over the plate.

Heck, look at Nolan Ryan, sure he has the mlb record for all time strikeouts, but he also has the mlb all time record for walks, almost doubling who’s in 2nd for that title. If you think about it, that probably could be a big reason why his winning percentage isn’t what it should be. Roy Oswalt even said, when you have lots of strikeouts in games, you don’t last as long, and won’t go deep into games.

Most people get that confused. As a pitcher your goal is to win, not just blow it past the guy. If winning means getting a groundball not strikeouts, I’d much rather get the groundball. At least i’ve done my job on the mound. Then it’s up to the team to help pick me up by getting the out.

PLAY AS A TEAM, WIN AS A TEAM. No sense in trying to do it all yourself, when you got 8 other guys out there willing to help, especially if it means winning.

Just my two cents worth.

-Billy


#13

Deception is usually pretty natural to ones delivery and how they throw. Not many people can or do change there delivery to add deception. Sure you can throw your hands over your head in the windup like paul byrd but its not as deceptive as say, a dontrelle willis. And deception only lasts so long, hitters use video, scouting reports, and past experiences to get used to a pitchers delivery and tendencies. Ex: Dontrelle Willis.

Movement is nice to have, but it doesn’t lead to potential like velocity does. Movement doesn’t correlate to the quality of ones breaking ball like velocity does. Coaches/scouts favor velocity much more, andrightfully so, but that in itself makes velocity more important.


#14

You have no proof of this to speak of. You are being unfair and making speculation on something you know nothing about.


#15

when lincecum ended his junior yr of college and was draft-eligble, the main concern among scouts was longevity. There were numerous organizations/scouting directors who questioned whether–with his windup, size, and thrust on his back could allow for a long durable career.


#16

So don’t you think those scouts messed up on passing on him with their pick? The guy could win his second straight Cy, and is the most dominant pitcher in the game. Directors, scouts, doctors and lawyers aren’t always right. I pitched against the guy twice 4 years ago, and let me say that he’s the best most dominating player I’ve ever seen or played against. Guys like him don’t come around very often, so let’s just enjoy him while he’s here. We haven’t seen anything this dominant since Pedro in his prime. Enjoy it.


#17

I enevr said he wasn’t exccelnt. Im giving you a reason why teams passed on him. He has been excellent, scouts that passed on him didn’t doubt his stuff, they doubted his longevity.

Do i think they “messed up”? As long as he stays healthy, then obviously they missed an excellent opportunity. In defense of the teams that passed on him, nobody has ever seen mechanics like him before. He has made hundreds, thousands of coaches think differently about strike and torque, and tempo rather than balance. yes, other pitchers before him pitched with a tempo rather than balance, but he has beeen the poster boy for efficient mechanics. They are efiicient as long as tim stays healthy. and if he stays healthy, he will prove those scouting directors wrong. On top of that, lincecum will change the perception of small, torqueful pitchers in the future.


#18

If Tim has one more season like the one he’s having this year or last year, he’ll be a HOF’r regardless if he ever throws another pitch. This guy was the best pitcher in college, and can’t miss, a no brainer, and these dumb scouts let size get in the way of a hefty promotion for themselves.


#19

The hall of famer comment is a complete joke. What makes a hall of famer is consistency over a number of years. Name me one pitcher in the hall of fame thats pitched less than 10 seasons in the bigs.


#20

Addie Joss pitched 9 years.

Koufax pitched 12, and was 4 games under .500 his first 6 years in the big leagues. He got in the Hof because of his last 4 years in the big leagues.

There are only two guys to win the cy young atleast 3 straight years, and that’s maddux and randy johnson. They both won it four straight years I believe. IF, Tim wins it this year, and has another dominating year next year, and wins 3 straight Cy youngs, he would be a 100% lock for the hall. Even in Sandy or Pedro’s dominant years, neither ever won three straight. Enjoy watching him pitch, he may be the best you’ll ever get to see.