Throw harder w crow hop or pitching mechanics?

Long story short, I throw 90, maybe a little more from the oufield. I am starting to work on pitching. Should I be able to throw harder with good pitching mechanics? Can’t find this answer anywhere.

Many moons ago, my wise and incredible pitching coach—an active major league pitcher—told me that there’s a lot more to pitching than just throwing the ball over the plate and daring the batter to hit it. And throwing from the outfield is a whole other ball game. You should find a good pitching coach, one who really knows his elbow from third base, and get started on acquiring some good basic mechanics. It’s not a question of throwing harder—practically anyone with a strong arm can do that—it’s pitching smarter, whether one is a fireballer or a finesse pitcher, and good mechanics are the key. 8)

good pt.

It really all depends on your mechanics. My son is an infielder and pitcher. Hardest he has ever been gunned throwing from SS is 82. From the mound he has been as high as 88. I have seen other kids throw the same from both. The only way to find out is to get on the bump and give it a try.

I also agree with Zita on this. There is a lot more to pitching that getting up there and chucking it over the plate. There are tons of MLB’ers who can throw the ball over 90. They are not pitchers for a reason. Once again though, you don’t know what you can do up there till you try. Get some instruction, get up on the bump and see how you do against live batters. I wouldn’t give up too quick though. If you want to pitch, it is a skill that you have to work on, like anything else. Give yourself some time, get good instruction, and give it a whirl.

[quote=“bballman”]It really all depends on your mechanics. My son is an infielder and pitcher. Hardest he has ever been gunned throwing from SS is 82. From the mound he has been as high as 88. I have seen other kids throw the same from both. The only way to find out is to get on the bump and give it a try.

I also agree with Zita on this. There is a lot more to pitching that getting up there and chucking it over the plate. There are tons of MLB’ers who can throw the ball over 90. They are not pitchers for a reason. Once again though, you don’t know what you can do up there till you try. Get some instruction, get up on the bump and see how you do against live batters. I wouldn’t give up too quick though. If you want to pitch, it is a skill that you have to work on, like anything else. Give yourself some time, get good instruction, and give it a whirl.[/quote]
I have had the opposite happen with me, as an outfielder, I have been gunned at 79, and sometimes 80. I only hit 75 on the mound once or twice when I was gunned. For me, I haven’t learned how to translate all my power onto the mound, so it leaves me with much to be desired. I know I can throw harder though, which is the point of me saying that. Anything that you do on the field with your arm, can be carried over onto the mound. You just have to learn to translate the power into intelligence when pitching.

I think one of the keys to maintaining velocity will be transferring the timing you have from the field to the mound. You obviously have good “internal” timing to be able to hit 90 in the field and likely don’t think about things like hand break, lifting your leg, stride etc.- IOW all the mental barriers thrown out by pitching coaches. So as you transition to the mound don’t overlook the things that got you there in the first place- timing, rhythm and speed of body movement generated by the crow hop.

As a coach it’s frustrating to see a kid with a strong arm in the field that naturally moves his body quickly get on the mound and go through some slow deliberate pitching mechanics that just destroy his natural timing and rhythm.

Also the mound should give you some assist just from gravity. It helps your arm move faster. Be careful though because you also have to slow it down as well and if not conditioned to do so injury can happen.

Suggestion

Wolforth tells the story of a guy who could long toss more than 300 ft which requires you throwing the ball faster than 90 MPH. Even though he could do that, he only throw 82 MPH off the mound. He finally broke through by BLENDING. He would long toss one throw and then throw off the mound.

For you, I would crow hop a throw as hard as I could. I would immediately step up on the mound and throw a pitch. Keep doing this and eventually you will blend your crow hop with your pitching.

[quote=“Slewbacca”]
For you, I would crow hop a throw as hard as I could. I would immediately step up on the mound and throw a pitch. Keep doing this and eventually you will blend your crow hop with your pitching.[/quote]

This directly relates to what I mean by keeping the same timing by getting the body to move as fast from the mound as during the crow hop. You may even want to try to crow hop down the mound and follow that up with a pitch from the stretch or windup.

I say if you want to be a pitcher, limit the long-tossing. It promotes a drastic change in positioning as the trunk is situated too far behind the front leg at ball release. It also prevents proper bracing action of the front leg and thus poor transfer of energy - it may be one of the reasons why there is an increase in arm injuries these days.

So, why practice with a crow hop if you can’t crow hop from a mound? Why practice on flat ground if you don’t pitch on flat ground? Why attempt to throw a ball 300 feet if you must pitch from 60 feet, 6 inches. More mound time, less outfield time! Remember, pitching isn’t really about arm strength - it’s about generating momentum with explosive movements; learn to use your entire body, get it to a full stretch with a low, long stride and late arm action. Perfect your mechanics and practice, practice, practice!

[quote=“structuredoc”]I say if you want to be a pitcher, limit the long-tossing. It promotes a drastic change in positioning as the trunk is situated too far behind the front leg at ball release. It also prevents proper bracing action of the front leg and thus poor transfer of energy - it may be one of the reasons why there is an increase in arm injuries these days.

So, why practice with a crow hop if you can’t crow hop from a mound? Why practice on flat ground if you don’t pitch on flat ground? Why attempt to throw a ball 300 feet if you must pitch from 60 feet, 6 inches. More mound time, less outfield time! Remember, pitching isn’t really about arm strength - it’s about generating momentum with explosive movements; learn to use your entire body, get it to a full stretch with a low, long stride and late arm action. Perfect your mechanics and practice, practice, practice![/quote]

I strongly disagree! Flat ground throwing is critical to arm efficiency. Throwing off a mound when you don’t need to puts unnecessary wear and tear on the arm.

[quote=“Slewbacca”]Suggestion

Wolforth tells the story of a guy who could long toss more than 300 ft which requires you throwing the ball faster than 90 MPH. Even though he could do that, he only throw 82 MPH off the mound. He finally broke through by BLENDING. He would long toss one throw and then throw off the mound.

For you, I would crow hop a throw as hard as I could. I would immediately step up on the mound and throw a pitch. Keep doing this and eventually you will blend your crow hop with your pitching.[/quote]

[quote=“TheUnDiscovered”][quote=“structuredoc”]I say if you want to be a pitcher, limit the long-tossing. It promotes a drastic change in positioning as the trunk is situated too far behind the front leg at ball release. It also prevents proper bracing action of the front leg and thus poor transfer of energy - it may be one of the reasons why there is an increase in arm injuries these days.

So, why practice with a crow hop if you can’t crow hop from a mound? Why practice on flat ground if you don’t pitch on flat ground? Why attempt to throw a ball 300 feet if you must pitch from 60 feet, 6 inches. More mound time, less outfield time! Remember, pitching isn’t really about arm strength - it’s about generating momentum with explosive movements; learn to use your entire body, get it to a full stretch with a low, long stride and late arm action. Perfect your mechanics and practice, practice, practice![/quote]

I strongly disagree! Flat ground throwing is critical to arm efficiency. Throwing off a mound when you don’t need to puts unnecessary wear and tear on the arm.[/quote]

Why do you think throwing from a mound puts unnecessary wear and tear on the arm? When you say “throwing off a mound when you don’t need to”, are you inferring that you only need to throw off a mound during games? When don’t you “need” to throw off a mound? If you don’t practice over and over again on a 10 inch elevated surface with a rubber, how the heck are you going to become an expert at doing so? That’s like asking Roger Federer to practice tennis on the beach without a net. I bet he doesn’t hit weighted tennis balls or use weighted racquets, either. Nor does he stand in the parking lot and try to hit the ball as far as he can.

[quote=“TheUnDiscovered”]

I strongly disagree! Flat ground throwing is critical to arm efficiency. Throwing off a mound when you don’t need to puts unnecessary wear and tear on the arm.[/quote]

I can’t believe it. I agree with you 100%.

[quote=“Slewbacca”][quote=“TheUnDiscovered”]

I strongly disagree! Flat ground throwing is critical to arm efficiency. Throwing off a mound when you don’t need to puts unnecessary wear and tear on the arm.[/quote]

I can’t believe it. I agree with you 100%.[/quote]
Flat ground has a lot less wear and tear on your arm. Usually we will throw a flat ground session 2 times a week, long toss 1 time, and 1 bull pen. The rest is just normal throwing and getting loose. Each one has their pros and cons.

How exactly does flat ground pitching have less stress on the arm than pitching from a mound? Moving the body explosively downhill reduces stress on the arm, not increases. The only rationale I can find for why flat ground throwing is less stressful is because with flat ground work a pitcher is not really pitching, he is merely throwing - and throwing slower. Sure, throwing harder is a more stressful activity than throwing slower but why do we want to practice slower? Walking is obviously less stressful than sprinting but I am sure Olympic sprinters don’t walk when they practice.

The idea of doing something different in practice as opposed to what is done in a game violates the Principle of Specificity: Flat ground throwing is just a completely different activity than pitching - If the pitcher does not practice the deceleration and landing phase which actually stops the body’s energy so it can transfer back up the chain, then how will the body get trained properly to pitch? I see little benefit to flat ground throwing for pitchers unless they are just having a fun game of catch.

[quote=“structuredoc”]How exactly does flat ground pitching have less stress on the arm than pitching from a mound? Moving the body explosively downhill reduces stress on the arm, not increases. The only rationale I can find for why flat ground throwing is less stressful is because with flat ground work a pitcher is not really pitching, he is merely throwing - and throwing slower. Sure, throwing harder is a more stressful activity than throwing slower but why do we want to practice slower? Walking is obviously less stressful than sprinting but I am sure Olympic sprinters don’t walk when they practice.

The idea of doing something different in practice as opposed to what is done in a game violates the Principle of Specificity: Flat ground throwing is just a completely different activity than pitching - If the pitcher does not practice the deceleration and landing phase which actually stops the body’s energy so it can transfer back up the chain, then how will the body get trained properly to pitch? I see little benefit to flat ground throwing for pitchers unless they are just having a fun game of catch.[/quote]

[quote=“Steve Ellis”]For younger pitchers, flat ground work is becoming more and more popular. Flat-ground training offers the opportunity for higher numbers of repetitions at relatively greater safety. Research shows that pitching off a mound can put up to 5 times the body’s weight of pressure on the pitcher’s joints. Working on spotting the baseball from flat ground is smart and can particularly save some added stress on a youth pitcher with an inefficient delivery.

“Dialing down” the fastball is also important when working on locating the fastball in skill work sessions. I have made many mound visits where I will simply ask a pitcher to start throwing his fastball at 85-90%.

Having said this, though, a balanced amount of mound training is important for youth pitchers. Remember, we all pitch from mounds in games. Pitching from mounds in practice teaches pitchers how to handle the slope and develop a comfort zone for it. Mound work also encourages a more natural stride (because you have gravity working for you), a more natural release point and better overall timing.

The older and more advanced a pitcher is, the less flat-ground work is helpful or recommended.[/quote]

Flat ground work ultimately causes less stress on the arm believe it or not, and it isn’t at 100%. The key is to work then on mechanics and location, while still maintaining a good amount of zip on your fastball.

haha. I asked an extremely simple question and you guys start an argument over it. I dont need help with pitching mechanics I will let a coach do that for me, I just wanted an answer to what I already thought was true. Which is in theory “you should be able to throw harder off the mound than off a crow hop”. But instead I get all these other crazy ideas and like some guy telling me not to long toss becasue it could mess up my mechanics? haha Come on bud, get your facts straight, you go and tell a little leaguer that and you could possibly ruin there careers.

My point is you guys are looking for answers that are not there and messing people up with all this extra hoopla that you think you know. I appreciate the advice for your only trying to help, but I am going to go get with a pitching instructor that has produced big league arms before and whatever he says I am going to do. Anything else I will not listen to. And if your any kid reading this post, any adult that wants to know more then you should go to a camp or get private lessons with a big league instructor. Your obsession is ruining baseball players that come on here and read your stuff.

I know this becasue I used to get on the internet and research everything there is about baseball. And only until I started relying on natural ability/ instinct more and mechanics less did I start to achieve. If you have great advice on pitching mechanics from somebody that actually knows there stuff, share it if necessary. If not, just let people play the game and if you need help, go to a coach that knows exactly what there doing help. You will never reach you full potential if you let thought come before what is truly inside you. Thats called gettin in the way of yourself and it is a common flaw in baseball caused by people with advice like some of you guys. Play the game. Just saying.

Well, I think you got your answer if you read the responses - some people throw harder with a crow hop than on a mound, while others do the opposite. Those who pitch (by that I mean those who know how to pitch) most likely throw harder from a mound; those who don’t know how to pitch (and, say, just play outfield) probably throw harder with a crow hop.

Good luck to you.

ya obviously if you read the posts dude you would UNDERSTAND its about transfering the energy to the ball… whether you crow hop, skip, hop, or prance around

[quote=“structuredoc”]Well, I think you got your answer if you read the responses - some people throw harder with a crow hop than on a mound, while others do the opposite. Those who pitch (by that I mean those who know how to pitch) most likely throw harder from a mound; those who don’t know how to pitch (and, say, just play outfield) probably throw harder with a crow hop.

Good luck to you.[/quote]
Some people just cannot get the same power on the mound, because it is about efficiency. I knew a guy who came here to play ball, was throwing 90 from the outfield as a freshman, never really trained with weights. He isn’t a pitcher because not everyone can use their body to pitch.