Throw Hard by Summoning Superhuman Strength


#1

fantastic article by my buddy Dan Blewett. Thoughts?

http://danblewett.com/2011/01/prime-to-throw-hard-superhuman-strength/


#2

Throwing fastballs at maximum intensity relatively often is definitely a good idea; this is something Nyman has talked about for years (decades?) - something you are well aware of. :slight_smile:

But “overriding” the golgi tendon organ (GTO, not GTI) isn’t exactly what you’re doing. Like most of the physiological processes in your body, they are adaptable - and this is what you are doing when you train at close to max intensities on a regular basis.

It goes further than that - throwing weighted balls or over/underspeed work will help train the CNS to recruit motor units more efficiently. This is seen in the powerlifting community by using bands/chains to accommodate the force strength curve in various lifts like the squat/deadlift/bench/press.


#3

LankyLefty-
interesting article.
Thanks for posting the link.

kyleb, I’ve never used weighted balls before.
I understand that throwing with weighted balls (like you said) forces the body to work more efficiently.
Does it also build up strength? are there other benefits to the body other than using motor units more efficiently?


#4

Yes, the general idea is that heavier balls build strength while the lighter balls build speed. The exact mechanism of action is not known, though.


#5

ya i took time off from throwing to get more strength… just started saturday and on my way to stretching back out to 300 ft… i never really DL heavy (90+%) and i believe its starting to pay off… went from 225 to handling weight at 300-315 within the month… mind muscle connection is a huge part to doing anything that involves being athletic

when i start pulling down the ball i will pull down at 99-100%… but i am a fan of long tossing now because it feels so good on my arm and body

hopefully i can hit that magic number… then transfer it to the mound which idk if that will be difficult or not…


#6

[quote=“Drewski”]
when i start pulling down the ball i will pull down at 99-100%… but i am a fan of long tossing now because it feels so good on my arm and body
hopefully i can hit that magic number… then transfer it to the mound which idk if that will be difficult or not…[/quote]

Actually Drewski, long toss might feel good on your arm and body,
but it has been proven to reduce a pitcher’s velocity.
Overall, long toss transfers negative throwing motions to the mound.
(flat ground throwing like long tossing should not be substituted for mound pitching)
Read this article:
http://www.pitching.com/blog/pitching-mechanics/two-reasons-why-long-toss-will-reduce-mound-pitching-velocity-for-most-pitchers/
Like the article says “When will baseball come forward and look at sports science research for answers to improving pitching performance and reducing the risk of injuries?”
[/img]


#7

I want to see that ASMI study. Pardon me if I don’t take Dick’s word for it.


#8

I also would like to see it.
I understand about you not taking Dick’s word for it.
I have found that there are quite a few people who don’t care for him.
Dick Mills is somebody I’ve read baseball advice from,
though he’s not really somebody I would recommend to every pitcher.
I did like what he said about old baseball ideas die hard,
that’s something that’s definitely true, whether it’s talking about long tossing, mechanical faults, or any baseball idea for that matter.


#9

Eric Cressey had an interesting post last week on his blog where he discussed not only long toss but long tossing past 120 feet (another controversial idea).

Here is the link:

http://ericcressey.com/long-toss-dont-skip-steps-in-your-throwing-program


#10

yeah, dick mills just attacks everyone who doesnt think like he does. i remember reading his stuff back when tall and fall was ruining kids arms

besides its common sense to long toss… my 2 cents is

a ball thrown at 300 ft is on average 86-90 leaving hand… well this makes sense because its physics… you cant throw a ball 75 the same distance a 90 mph ball

  1. get stronger, lift heavier weight, run faster, run against resistance, throw harder, throw farther

#11

What do you mean “tall and fall”?

[quote] besides its common sense to long toss… my 2 cents is
a ball thrown at 300 ft is on average 86-90 leaving hand… well this makes sense because its physics… you cant throw a ball 75 the same distance a 90 mph ball
2. get stronger, lift heavier weight, run faster, run against resistance, throw harder, throw farther.[/quote]
Actually, to me it is not common sense to long toss.
How is long tossing going to improve your performance on the mound?
Just think about it. Long tossing is totally different from mound pitching.
Long toss is generally done on flat ground, whereas pitching is done from a mound. Long tossers have to tilt their trunk upward (to varying degrees). How is that going to help a pitcher on the mound? Pitchers on the mound need to tilt their trunk forward and downward (slightly).
Long tossing mechanics are different from pitching mechanics.
When a pitcher does long toss, he often transfers negative mechanics from long tossing into his mound pitching mechanics.
That’s one of the reasons why it’s better not to long toss.
And besides, medical science and sports science research has proven that long tossing is not beneficial to a pitcher.
When will people listen?

Why did you put “get stronger, lift heavier weight, run faster, run against resistance, throw harder, throw farther.”?
What does that have to do with it? Surely you’re not suggesting that long tossing helps you do all of those things.


#12

Throwing a baseball for a 120 feet is one thing,
long tossing for distances up and over 300 feet is another.


#13

Throwing a baseball for a 120 feet is one thing,
long tossing for distances up and over 300 feet is another.[/quote]

so wheres the reason for throwing at 120? why not just stay at 60 ft 6 inches for all your life

you say long toss is bad for you but you dont post any evidence (i know i didnt either but just youtube jaeger long toss - trevor b. or barry zito)

also dice-K and halladay are shown throwing long toss on youtube

if you didnt understand the lift heavier, throw harder throw farther stuff than i dont know why

its like you put a bird in a 3x3 cage and only grows to be 2 lbs

you put the bird in a 50x50 room and he grows to 5-7 lbs

why limit yourself to 60 ft all the time? it does nothing but wear down the muscles


#14

[quote=“CardsWin”]
I understand about you not taking Dick’s word for it.
I have found that there are quite a few people who don’t care for him.
Dick Mills is somebody I’ve read baseball advice from,
t\quote]

not many people take his word because he has little to no experience, and he bashes everyone else for not believing his words

  1. idk why you would take advice from him if you know not many people like him

#15

[quote=“Drewski”]you say long toss is bad for you but you dont post any evidence (i know i didnt either but just youtube jaeger long toss - trevor b. or barry zito)
its like you put a bird in a 3x3 cage and only grows to be 2 lbs
you put the bird in a 50x50 room and he grows to 5-7 lbs
why limit yourself to 60 ft all the time? it does nothing but wear down the muscles[/quote]

Well, you can just youtube somebody pitching from a mound.
You know, Dice-K and Halladay are also on youtube pitching from a mound.
Your bird in a cage analogy is amusing, you didn’t mention that the bird won’t just grow larger because he has a bigger room.
It has to have the proper nutrition, training, etc. (if you’re comparing it between pitching from 60 ft. 6 inches. and long-tossing).
Why limit yourself to 60 ft. all the time?
First of all, when a pitcher pitches in a baseball game,
where does he pitch from? the oufield or the mound?
Also, common sense says that throwing for a longer distance will wear your muscles down more than pitching from a distance of 60 ft. 6 inches.
Just think about it for a minute.


#16

[quote=“Drewski”]
not many people take his word because he has little to no experience, and he bashes everyone else for not believing his words
2. idk why you would take advice from him if you know not many people like him[/quote]

Little to no experience, all right.
He has been talking about, teaching about, and writing about baseball
since 1995. He’s written several pitching books.
In 2005, Dr. Brent Rushall, a world-renowned sports scientist with 45 years experience, agreed to cowrite an in depth reference book on pitching. His website is one of the largest sports science websites on the internet. The book is called “The Science & Art of Baseball Pitching”.
Why would I take advice from him if not many people like him?
Because the advice I have taken from him has helped me.
Just because alot of people don’t like him doesn’t mean what he says isn’t true. Actually, some people don’t like him because they themselves know that what he is saying is true and they don’t want to accept it.


#17

lol if you understood muscles and body function you know that if the body is placed under stress progressively it will adapt to function stronger and better

so i dont see where throwing longer hurts your arm, in fact it makes it stronger by adapting to the stresses

you also said youtube halladay from the mound, duh its where you preform your skills, youtube him long tossing to get ready for the game.

done with close minded dick mills, still havent mentioned why he bashes other peoples ideas… maybe youll be his first ever protege’ to play MLB

good luck to ya broksi


#18

[quote=“Drewski”]maybe youll be his first ever protege’ to play MLB.
good luck to ya broksi[/quote]

You may believe in long-tossing,
and I may not-
but you know, what doesn’t work for someone, may work for another person,
or vice versa.
And good luck to you too!


#19

Dick Mills’ marketing tactics aside, here is what I have read about him:

  1. He played in the bigs for a short time and played in the minors for a few years.

  2. His son was a #1 pick out of Arizona St. where he pitched in the CWS.

  3. He has been instructing for nearly 20 years.

  4. He has presented at ASMI conferences and has written/co-written books on pitching.

In my book, that makes him qualified to at least some degree. From my reading of his materials, he doesn’t seem too far out there. If anything he is just old school; he wants to go back to the days when pitchers pitched. He just thinks that too many pitchers today are spending too much time on activities that take away from the single most important aspect of developing the skill of pitching - and that is the constant improvement/refinement of the pitcher’s mechanics. He advocates using a whole body approach, learning to pitch with the lower half to take stress off the arm (which Zita should approve of!), and videotaping to observe the little idiosyncrasies that may detract from one’s velocity and/or control.

I’m not saying he is better than or more or less qualified than any other “guru” out there, but I don’t get why he gets such a bad rap.


#20

Because he looks the other way when presented with evidence that long toss, weighted balls and strength training can help to improve velocity as well. He is completely stubborn and close minded.

His claim to fame is his son (who I happen to have a clip of from the CWS). Fun fact: Ryan Mills’ mechanics actually do resemble high level throwing mechanics, which is why he threw 95, and look nothing like anything Dick Mills ever preached. In fact, he looks more like a Paul Nyman student if anything.

He certainly has found his niche: parents of young high school pitchers who want their kids to do better. Through ingenious marketing tactics he’s able to draw these people in. After all, what he says makes logical sense on the surface. I certainly fell for it at one point in my career so I can see why so many others would as well.

:lol: