Throw And Turn Breaking Ball

I read about the throw and turn breakingball in a book and I understand most of it but not when you should start puting the spin on the ball so if anyone could explane furthere or has a video it would be greatly appreciated

Could you explain kind of what a throw and turn breaking ball is?

Never heard of it before, I’d like an indepth explanation as well.

Throw and turn = Throw and pronate (turn wrist over)?

The book says the steps to throwing a throw and turn breaking ball are:

  1. throw-have your palm faceing the hitter
  2. turn- put the spin on the ball
  3. pull the elbow in towards to protect it from overextension
    The more you extend the smaller the break. So when you extend farther it will have smaller break at it will be called a slider and if you pull in more it will cause more spin have biger break and be called a curveball
    The book also says this is hoe Johny Sain taught it that way and how John Smoltz, Greg Maddux, Tom Glavine, and Denny Neagle throw their breaking balls
    The book is Pitch Like A Pro by Leo Mazzone
    The part I don’t understand is when you should start puting the spin on the ball, like right before you release it or what

For most people’s breaking balls, the pressure will be applied with your middle finger. You don’t necessarily “put” the spin on the ball by doing anything out of the ordinary. Spin will come from hand speed. The more hand speed, the better with a breaking ball.

[quote=“cinciboy”]The book says the steps to throwing a throw and turn breaking ball are:

  1. throw-have your palm faceing the hitter[/quote]
    When?

[quote]
2) turn- put the spin on the ball[/quote]
Pretty much impossible to move the arm that is moving 85-100 mph?

what?

[quote]
The more you extend the smaller the break. So when you extend farther it will have smaller break at it will be called a slider and if you pull in more it will cause more spin have biger break and be called a curveball
The book also says this is hoe Johny Sain taught it that way and how John Smoltz, Greg Maddux, Tom Glavine, and Denny Neagle throw their breaking balls
The book is Pitch Like A Pro by Leo Mazzone
The part I don’t understand is when you should start puting the spin on the ball, like right before you release it or what[/quote]

I disagree

Just karate chop the damn thing and throw a power curve

I agree with Spencer…pre-set your curveball grip with the ball buried deep in your hand, keep your wrist firm, and karate-chop that badboy straight toward the target. There’s no twisting/untwisting motion in a good power curve.

You need to realize that your hand/wrist/forearm will automatically pronate after the release of every pitch, no matter what the grip. If you start the launch of your pitch with palm forward (a fastball orientation) and twist your hand/wrist/forearm into supination to get the breaking ball spin, your h/w/f will have then have to untwist a long way to get into pronation-- twisting and untwisting those moving parts during the stress of a high-speed pitch is not good for your elbow.

I’m going to look again at my copy of Mazzone’s book, but regardless, I doubt very much that all of those pitchers on the great Atlanta staffs really threw breaking balls the way the ‘throw and turn’ method was described…

I do agree with both you and spence flip.

However, I will say that it is important that while you karate chop to keep a very slight flex in the elbow joint. Injuries can happen from hyperextension on the breaking ball. By keeping a slight flex in the elbow your hand speed will be going down, thus helping with the spin on the ball.

Well you never want to fully extend the elbow when you are pitching anyways… ever.

So we are right back where we started. :duel:

i have the book you are referring to. it has some great stuff in it. that’s where i got most of the 70% bullpen work my guys do.

what mazzone talks about is you accelerate the ball forward before you spin it. good curve balls are created in front of the head, not behind. vern ruhle used to go through his delivery and snap his fingers where you want to release and spin the curveball. it’s way out in front of your head. that’s what i think he is referring to when he says throw and turn the breaking pitch. mazzone doesn’t distinguish between a slider and curveball, he just wants a quality breaking pitch. it makes sense and works for us.

the other thing that works is keeping the relationship of the button on your cap and your throwing hand constant until release. that helps younger guys keep the good 90’ angle in the throwing elbow. the elbow must get in front of the throwing shoulder to pull straight down. the wrist is not used to get spin on the pitch. the downward force is caused by pulling with the shoulder keeping the elbow flexed at approximately 90’ (for an overhand or 3/4 breaking pitch).

if you get a lat pulldown machine with the rope attachment and pull it straight down from the overhead setting. you are much stronger with better leverage pulling with the shoulder, than you are the elbow. you can’t really pull very hard using the wrist or the elbow to impart spin.

try it.

i have good luck teaching curveball spin using a simple roll of athletic tape(also use it to teach backward spin on the fastball and proper release of the change-up. little guys usually have a football or sideways spin with the tape. when it comes out of the hand tumbling forward you usually have a pretty good breaking ball.

I just think the extension is different. Personally, I work with a guy in the off season that was fortunate enough to play under the coaching of leo mazzone. This guy helped me out with my breaking ball a ton. Just a couple years ago I was focused more on getting extension away from my body on the breaking ball, just like you would want on your fastball. For me, it was causing me to cast alot and have loose rotation. I focused on keeping a flex in the elbow and bringing my hand down and into the body after release. Not only did this help with command, but the tightness of my curveball improved drastically. Just a thought

that’s exactly how you throw a good curveball hammer. then be absolutely sure you cusion the elbow on the follow through keeping the elbow bend and relaxed. ruhle stressed finishing the pitch with your throwing hand above the belt on the glovehand side. ideally touching the ribcage.

Right on Dusty

Great tape idea.