The Myth of the 'Power Postion, Power L, or up position'


#1

#2

I am not agreeing with your logic here Jim, teaching a fundamental position is different than a hi level thrower in delivery.
The point is that a developing pitcher needs a basis of understanding the basic body movements and athletic motions, certainly hi level throwers will by the time they’ve reached the apex of their time in the game, have modified those fundamentals to fit their need. I don’t find the two exclusive at all.


#3

There seems to be a subtle difference between making assumptions and making observations but my own experience has taught me that when trying to determine what has actually happened, it is more prudent and beneficial to make the observation and leave it at that. Assumptions, especially those based on one variable, can actually derail an otherwise valid investigation and can lead you into a wild goose chase that does not honor your intent.

You can find all sorts of examples of false assumptions in modern history and see how far off the mark they were. In fact, I am amazed at how many things we did or didn’t do in the past that have turned out to be proven a total waste of time worrying about.

Like, this post I just made. Nice presentation.


#4

I think that younger pitchers should be less taught about the ‘up’ position and more about momentum, separation, and a fluid arm action.


#5

I’ve always believed that you have to crawl to walk, walk to run…giving sophisticated instruction to a neophyte has little value…until they understand the fundamental movement, you may as well try teaching neuroscience before a kid knows anatomy.


#6

Well said Dino.

All I want to do is give my opinion of what I see and what I believe is the cause of it and leave it at that.

I by no means am stating an ‘absolute’ fact about pitching mechanics. I love talking about pitching and am open to any discussion about it. I’m nearly 20 and by no means an expert

To summarize what my video is talking: I see most pitchers with their hips open or opening, torso closed, and their scap loaded deeply. The exact angle of the arm varies and seems to me to be a less significant aspect of the delivery than what is commonly taught it to be.


#7

Let’s say the father of a kid from your neighborhood asks you to get his ten year old going in the right direction on the pitcher’s mound. The kid shows up and you get a feel for how he’s throwing and ask him who his favorite major league pitcher is. You know he’s probably going to be trying to copy those mechanics. He says, “Ubaldo Jiminez.” Where do you start?


#8

I would show him his leg drive and intent. Jimenez does a good job in both essential areas and I think would be a good spot to start with a ten year old.

But that isn’t set in stone. A lot depends on the kid himself and seeing him pitch. If he is good in those areas I would probably try to focus on separation, since that is an area that most pitchers at every level struggle with.

If I was going to show the kid his mechanics in particular, I would definanteky would want to show him some slow motion and full speed so he can see the areas I’m talking about. That way I could engage all three learning areas. Visual, hearing, and doing

And also his head. Making sure his head found the target early and locked on it.


#9

First of all, using the term “position” while speaking of such a dynamic motion has the potential to cause people to focus on a static element, as opposed to dynamic timing. Secondly, using the term “power” with respect to this, or any, “position” is inaccurate. There are just too many elements at play in creating “power”.


#10

I agree. That’s part of the reason why teaching the up position is not a sound coaching method(IMO) to getting pitchers to have powerful and efficient mechanics


#11

dm59 and jimster, I agree with you 100%.
Many moons ago I had a most incredible pitching coach—an active major league pitcher—who would always start out by either calling in a catcher or getting behind the plate himself with a mitt and having the pitcher do some throwing for ten minutes or so, observing things such as the windup, delivery and follow-through, where the release point was, things like that. When he was showing me how to throw a good slider, he stood nearby and made some mental notes about what I was doing. He saw that I was a natural, honest-to-gosh sidearmer with a consistent release point, and he formulated a jumping-off point from which he could work with me. Because I was a sidearmer (who had picked up and was using the crossfire a lot), he saw no point in futzing around with various minutiae because my mechanics were basically sound; he would simply make a suggestion as to what I could do to finish in a good fielding position, for example. He firmly believed that each pitcher has a natural motion, and so what he would do was work with said pitcher to maximize his/her capabilities. He knew I wasn’t particularly fast; at one point he said to me “You know, you haven’t said one word about a fast ball.” I was flabbergasted and exploded “WHAT fast ball?” He laughed—he had a warm, easy laugh—and then told me "Don’t worry about that. We’ll work with what you’ve got."
That slider became my strikeout pitch. :baseballpitcher:


#12

I always like reading your stories Zita!

:baseballpitcher:


#13

[quote=“Zita Carno”]dm59 and jimster, I agree with you 100%.
Many moons ago I had a most incredible pitching coach—an active major league pitcher—who would always start out by either calling in a catcher or getting behind the plate himself with a mitt and having the pitcher do some throwing for ten minutes or so, observing things such as the windup, delivery and follow-through, where the release point was, things like that. When he was showing me how to throw a good slider, he stood nearby and made some mental notes about what I was doing. He saw that I was a natural, honest-to-gosh sidearmer with a consistent release point, and he formulated a jumping-off point from which he could work with me. Because I was a sidearmer (who had picked up and was using the crossfire a lot), he saw no point in futzing around with various minutiae because my mechanics were basically sound; he would simply make a suggestion as to what I could do to finish in a good fielding position, for example. He firmly believed that each pitcher has a natural motion, and so what he would do was work with said pitcher to maximize his/her capabilities. He knew I wasn’t particularly fast; at one point he said to me “You know, you haven’t said one word about a fast ball.” I was flabbergasted and exploded “WHAT fast ball?” He laughed—he had a warm, easy laugh—and then told me "Don’t worry about that. We’ll work with what you’ve got."
That slider became my strikeout pitch. :baseballpitcher:[/quote]

this is exactly how I was taught (thankfully), and I continue too teach this way for the past 4 years…some parents look at me like im crazy…doesn’t seem to be the fundamental way of teaching…

(Sorry for typos and spelling…on a bus to a game…hard too type heh)


#14

You must have talked to Ed Lopat at one time or another. (chuckle) That was exactly how he worked with pitchers—including me. He knew what would work for me, and we got at it. :slight_smile: