The KnuckleCurve!


#1

Im still wondering and being told different things about this pitch. When someone grips this they have their pointer finger tucked in and when thrown im wondering does the finger flick up or jus stays like that ?? :?:


#2

No flick.


#3

I threw the knuckle curve. There’s no flick. The finger simply stays tucked in and more or less out of the way.


#4

in this book I’m reading “The Neyer/James Guide to Pitchers” they say that the real knuckle curve, as thrown in the old days, was not really a curve at all in the sense that you broke it off like a curve.

In fact you threw it as a fastball, just with the index finger tucked back.

I haven’t been able to try this, however, because of this last little blast of in-humane freezing temps we’ve been getting.


#5

I have to admit to some new-found haziness about the knuckle curve (versus the spike curve).

I’d love if someone could clear this up, since I am thinking about teaching the grip to my son.

I was under the impression that a knuckle curve is thrown like a fastball, without any cocking or twisting of the wrist. The topspin (or less back spin) comes from the automatic extension of the index finger.

I used to think that a spike curveball is the same thing, but now I’m starting to wonder if a spike curveball is just a variant of the standard curveball and is thrown by supinating the forearm.

Is the spike curveball also thrown like a fastball or is it thrown by supinating the forearm? I don’t see how with the spike you will achieve any significant topspin.


#6

ya know, Chris, in those pics of guys inching up their fingers like that, I’ve often wondered if they’re actually throwing fastballs, 2 seamers, and this is how they apply more pressure to one side.

Ellis wrote an article a while ago saying that fastball movement comes from the difference in length between the index and middle fingers, so this could be how they create more of a difference in length, thus greater movement.

… And, according to my Neyer/James book, the ‘spike curve’ has been used to describe the pitch that Mussina, Sutton and Darryl Kile throw where they actually throw it like a curveball with the index finger back.

The traditional knuckle curve as thrown by Dave Stenhouse in the 1960s there is now breaking, snapping off of the wrist.


#7

[quote=“andrew.ra.”]ya know, Chris, in those pics of guys inching up their fingers like that, I’ve often wondered if they’re actually throwing fastballs, 2 seamers, and this is how they apply more pressure to one side.

Ellis wrote an article a while ago saying that fastball movement comes from the difference in length between the index and middle fingers, so this could be how they create more of a difference in length, thus greater movement.

… And, according to my Neyer/James book, the ‘spike curve’ has been used to describe the pitch that Mussina, Sutton and Darryl Kile throw where they actually throw it like a curveball with the index finger back.

The traditional knuckle curve as thrown by Dave Stenhouse in the 1960s there is no breaking, snapping off of the wrist.[/quote]

That’s what I was thinking.

That this might just be an unusual way of getting the index finger up off the ball, perhaps to increase the rate at which a traditional curveball spins.


#8

thats interesting i always thought the knucklecurve had the index finger tucked in but i guess not… 8) unless theres different ways in throwing it


#9

So did I.

Then I started noticing some guys with a wrapped knuckle as in Steve’s photo and some people with a spiked knuckle as in the photos of Mussina, Jenks, and Haren.


#10

…yeah, but I am leaning towards thinking that in those pics those guys are throwin 2 seam fastballs.

I never heard of Danny HArren or Bobby Jenks throwing a knuckle curve.


#11

Here we see Phil Hughes doing it too/


#12

what you guys see on these pics are traditional curveballs with the index finger tucked for a tighter grip. the reason a lot of guys throw it like that is that usually it feels tighter in the hand than both fingers on the ball koufax threw his curveball that way. an other variation is the index finger extended and eric gagne throws his curveball like that. a spike curve is thrown the same way and is a pitch for little leagues that acts a lot like a slow breaking slurve. you hold it with the index finger tucked and you throw it so it rolls off the side of your middle finger without supinating the wrist. it gives the ball side spin and it’s going to break a bit.

the knuckle-curve is a pitch throw by burt hooton in the 80’s and looks a lot like a knuckleball but the ball is actually hold with your knuckles instead of the tips of your fingers. here is what the grip looks like.

this pitch can look like a SPITball is thrown properly because you don’t flick your wrist and the batter can’t wait for a breaking ball since it’s thrown across the seams and it looks like a 4-seam fastball but you actually put topspin on it. you actually flick the ball off the top of your fingers while bringing your thumb to your palm.

darryl kyle had an other variation of the flicking curveball but the man died a couple years ago so i don’t know if there is any picture of his grip.


#13

Hard to say for sure.

The middle finger is right on that seam, which could make it either a two-seamer or a curve.


#14

I have seen photos of Mussina with the straight middle finger grip. Looks like a 4-seamer or a choked change-up.


#15

I’d really like to sit down with Mussina and ask him what he’s doing on those pics. That’s the only way to find out.


#16

yea i would too u cant really tell in those pics if its a 2 seam… or knuckle curve…


#17

that’s how i throw mine, i just don’t throw it as hard as my fastball


#18

[quote=“Taylor”][quote=“andrew.ra.”]
In fact you threw it as a fastball, just with the index finger tucked back.

[/quote]

that’s how i throw mine, i just don’t throw it as hard as my fastball[/quote]

Cool. What does it do? Drop like a splitter?


#19

I emailed the communications director Mr . Holton of the Round Rock Express. I asked him if Mr Hooten would spend a few key strokes in our direction with a basic of outline of how he threw it.

If Mr Hooten has the time to answer, I will will post here, Ian.


#20

i would love to see that but i doubt it will ever happen. please make me wrong.