Hey guys im sorta gunna go on a rant post now so please bear with me. today i went in for an inning of relief. the previous pitcher let 2 runners get on second and third and the game was tied. i struck the first two guys out and then with two strikes on the last batter i threw a slider (thanks zita :D) that he swung and missed on. my catcher missed the ball the runner on third stole home and we lost the game does anyone else have a story like this where you compleatly get screwed by a team-mate and everyone blames you? grrrrrrrrrrr
Happens all the time. I’ve seen it in the major leagues. You may not remember this—it was probably well before your time—but a classic example came in the 1941 World Series, when Brooklyn Dodgers catcher Mickey Owen let a third strike (which would have ended the game with a Dodger victory had he caught it) get away from him, all the way back to the dugout, and Tommy Henrich reached first. The Yankees took advantage of it with four straight hits, won that game and the next one and the Series.
The whole idea of having a catcher is that he has to be able to catch…and hold on to the ball. 8)
Walk off strike out…no that is a bite!!! I don’t have anything that even comes close.
How about a walk-off striking out the side?
lefties throw harder3333,
I’m not sure I’m followin’ correctly. If the runner stole home and he was the winning run, what you threw and whether or not the catcher caught it are immaterial. Stolen bases, especially steals of home are almost always the pitcher’s fault.
If the pitch was close enough that the batter swung, the catcher should at least be able to block it. Not the pitcher’s fault, not even close.
It sounds to me as though you don’t quite realize the difference between a steal, a wild pitch, and a passed ball, or that batters have been known to swing at pitches not even remotely close to the strike zone.
Let me ask you this. If there came a time when you were sent to the mound, but he catcher got injured on the 1st pitch and the only player left to catch, couldn’t catch a cold, would you tell the manager you didn’t want to pitch, or if you did, blame everything on the catcher from not calling good pitches to not being able to block balls in the dirt?
What I’m trying to get you to understand is, once you let go of the ball, nothing is in your control other than fielding your position correctly. Would you want the other players on the team complaining about you every time you walked a batter or gave up a hit? Heck, what if they all decided that every time you allowed a batter to hit the ball hard they weren’t gonna catch it? You need to understand that all the players are doing the best they can, and it serves no purpose other than to create ill will and animosity to point fingers. That’s the sign of a mature player.
scorekeeper, I feel you are being a bit harsh, the guy says that the batter swung, probably means that the pitch was hittable and therefore should have been catchable, I agree if the pitch was in the dirt or on the backstop then it’s the pitchers fault. I don’t think he was trying to point out fault, just the frustration of throwing a good pitch. If the pitch would have been down the middle and the hitter jacked it I’m sure he would take the criticism and not blame the catcher for it, the catcher knew what pitch was coming, he made the pitch getting the strike out and not getting to finish the game.
Frustration doesn’t equal blame.
buwhite thank you thats exactly what i was trying to say
scorekeeper all im saying is that it was a good slider on the corner of the plate and the catcher didnt even get a hand on it. we lost the game because the ball rolled to the backstop and the runner on third scored. i was just using the forum to vent my frustration because if i did play the blame game (wich i didnt) my team might split into sides and our whole season could have been in jeprody. sometimes you just need to read over the post before you start dealing out the critisism :roll:
Well lth, here’s a little something for you to consider, and perhaps it’ll give you some I idea about why I questioned what you wrote.
For many years I’ve wanted to get a better reading on pitches in the dirt for HS players. This summer I’ve decided to take the plunge and have written a scoring program, and balls in the dirt is something I’ve made allowances for it to track. Unfortunately, right now I don’t have any HS games to test the program with, but every day I score at least part of a ML game. Right now all I’m having it do is give a raw total of pitches in the dirt that are balls, and its also counting pitches in the dirt that are strikes. In the last 4 games, including the AS game, there have been a total of 17 pitches that were in the dirt that ML hitters swung at, and I’d guess that at least a fourth of them were not blocked by the catcher.
When I add that to my experience of many years of scorekeeping and understanding completely the difference between a WP and a PB, and having been a catcher of some repute who knows how difficult it is to catch some of the garbage batters will swing at, I honestly believe the chances of your catcher committing what is a passed ball on a pitch that was catchable, was pretty slim. It happens, but not as much as people think.
What you don’t understand is, when you come to a forum like this and start “venting” the way you did before and are doing now, the blame game is exactly what you’re doing. You’re rationalizing your failure to win the game by blaming it on someone else. Its ok, though. You’ll learn. It may take someone hearing you make a remark and telling the catcher about it and he gets in your face about it, or worse, but one day you’ll understand.
Stuff happens, and it usually happens to everyone. Perhaps you’ve never had a bad game, and if that’s true, you’re a mighty lucky fellow, and I hope your good luck continues.
And FYI, I did read over your posts, and very carefully I might add.
[quote=“buwhite”]scorekeeper, I feel you are being a bit harsh, the guy says that the batter swung, probably means that the pitch was hittable and therefore should have been catchable, I agree if the pitch was in the dirt or on the backstop then it’s the pitchers fault. I don’t think he was trying to point out fault, just the frustration of throwing a good pitch. If the pitch would have been down the middle and the hitter jacked it I’m sure he would take the criticism and not blame the catcher for it, the catcher knew what pitch was coming, he made the pitch getting the strike out and not getting to finish the game.
Frustration doesn’t equal blame.[/quote]
I wish I knew if I was reply to an adult or a child, but here goes. If you believe everything a pitcher tells you about a game he pitched, you’re a bit naive. You have your opinion of what he was doing and I have mine. I could see he was frustrated, but blaming other players is should never be an acceptable way to vent frustration.
As fo what he’d do if someone jacked a pitch off him, I’d certainly hope he’d own up to it, but from what I’ve seen here so far, I think you might be giving a little too much credit, especially considering how he’s handled this little episode. As for what the catcher knew and didn’t know, I can tell you for a fact that catchers get crossed up, and its not always their fault. You’d know that if you’d ever put down the sign for a CU down and away and the pitcher threw a 94MPH dart the came right at your head.
Like I said, STUFF HAPPENS! Believe me there’s more than enough blame to go around to, so it really is anti-productive to point fingers at a teammate.
scorekeeper everything i said in that post was true buwhite is not naive to believe me :x im going into my junior year of highschool next year so at my age catchers are pretty liable to make errors. i did not throw the ball in the dirt nor was it a hard pitch to catch it was right on the corner of the plate and he just had a brain fart and missed it. i came on the sight to vent because its better then yelling at him. i was simpley asking the other members of the sight if anything like this had ever happened to them :?
You’re correct! At your age “catchers are pretty liable to make errors”, even though if everything was exactly as you described it there was no “ERROR”. Just to keep from getting confused, let’s just call it a mistake. But the thing you need to keep in mind is, while catchers are apt to make mistakes at your age, so are pitchers, and that’s why when I read things like what you wrote, I consider the perspective of the writer.
You’re just not getting what I’m trying to point out to you. Every player who’s ever played the game has been in both your position and the catcher’s! STUFF HAPPENS! But player’s assigning blame is not productive. It doesn’t make you a bad person, just inexperienced.
Thank you Buwhite, I love the calmness of your replies, always helpful, and always appreciated.
scorekeeper, hhis was the dad reponding to this post, most of the mechanical things my son responds to but I respond to the mental and technical aspects or baseball. It just helps when we aren’t so argumentative, I know you are just trying to help so lets keep the conversation going.
I honestly don’t understand why you guys don’t use 2 different names, like BU and BUJR. I guess others don’t care how or to whom they’re responding, but I do, and I find it very disconcerting because I certainly wouldn’t respond to a child the same way I respond to an adult. I don’t think its wrong at all, but as I said, I find it disconcerting, and that’s why I seldom respond to things that post under the name BUWHITE.
As for whether or not I’ve been argumentative in this thread, I guess that’s up to the beholder. Over the years I’ve found that one of the least productive things that a player, coach, parent, or fan can do, is point fingers. Heck, if you want to find some bench time on our HS team, let the coach hear you say anything bad about another player on the team. And if its bad enough, you might even find yourself watching from the bleachers.
It would be different if players who booted a ball, missed a throw, grooved a fat pitch, or whiffed with the bases loaded, down by a run in the bottom of the last inning didn’t care or didn’t feel bad. But in my experience, the opposite is true, even to the point of players feeling bad when it wasn’t their fault, such as in a fielder diving for a ball just out of his reach, or hitting a rocket that some defender makes a fantastic catch on.
Now there are some players who don’t care, but they usually get weeded out or change their attitudes as they go higher in levels, because the other players and coaches will let them know in short order that no one likes a “finger pointer”. I realize that he didn’t point fingers in the dugout or where the catcher or his teammates could hear him, but it’s the attitude that’s wrong, no matter where its displayed. And honestly, I wasn’t trying to beat him up, but rather teach him something. Unfortunately, you and some others empathized with him because its undoubtedly happened to you, and I came off as the heavy in the discussion.
But, the good thing is, I’m betting that in the end, there was a lesson learned, so its all good.
i also have some input to say. I get just as mad as the next guy, when an error occurs or something bad happens. As for losing the game on the missed pitch.
Dude their is no reason to point your finger at him. I guarantee you, almost 100 percent guarantee you, that he feels way,way,way worse than you do
Even though it was a mistake, the catcher,himself knows how big of a mistake it was. and probaly feels alot worse
better just to shake it off and try to win the next game
critical game in high school season , vying for 3rd and final playoff spot in our division . 2 outs in the bottom of the last inning (7th) my team is up 1-0 and i am throwing a no-hitter. leadoff man reached 3rd on a walk, and 2 sac bunts. 1-2 count on a pinch hitter , i throw a slider in the dirt but my catcher hangs on to it but the runner thought it was a passed ball so he was far off the bag , then my catcher proceeded to try and pick him off, against the screams from my coaches and I telling him to hold on to it. Then he throws the ball , it hits the runner in the helmet and the ball goes into the outfield and the runner scores. I came out after that inning and we lost 2-1 in the 8th.
^ I would assume after 2 sac bunts that there were 2 outs.
In my opinion both teams made bad baseball mistakes there. First off I hate the idea of bunting a guy to third when you already have 1 out. A base hit scores a runner from 2nd anyways and with two outs you need a base hit to score him from 3rd too. I understand a passed ball could happen but in that case you can sac him home anyways if he gets to third on that same passed ball.
But then your catcher let them get away with it by making an unnecessary throw with 2 outs. Unless he’s a sure out don’t throw it, especially to third since he scores on a bad throw and odds are if he’s a smart runner he’s in the baseline on the way back to the bag anyways.
I wasn’t going to post in this thread but after reading that I just had to point out everything that was wrong with that, little things like that bug me.
Have your coaches gone over with your team in practice when and when not to make that throw? 2 outs and especially with 2 strikes is no time to be making snap throws behind the runner, or in my personal opinion pickoff throws from the mound.
There’s a few situations in which I would throw with 2 outs but not many, with 2 outs you get the batter, don’t risk a bad throw. It reminds me of a game earlier this year I believe the Yankees and Rays where the only run scored because the pitcher made an unnecessary pickoff throw to third that got away with 2 outs instead of getting the batter, the Yankees went on to win 1-0 all because of a throw that didn’t even need to be made.
Remember pick-off attempts rarely succeed and batters (even good ones) get out 70% of the time or more.