The 2 seam/Sinking Fastball Discussion


#1

This is the pitch I want to master

I’m a RHP and I want good movement dropping and tailing in. I get about 3 inch drop and tail, but I’d like to try to get more movement. Lowe/Maddux type movement.

I’ve tried throwing this pitch a variety of ways and typically get the same results. I’ve kept a relatively loose grip and I just looked at Wikipedia and they recommended a very tight grip with pretty much your whole finger tips on the ball opposed to just the finger tips.

I’ve also tried keeping my thumb extended under the ball and then tucking it underneath the ball which i’ve heard gives it a little more sinking action

I try to pressure the ball a little extra with my index finger as I release it

Lastly, I’ve thrown the ball normally and I’ve pronated my wrist trying to get additional spin but the ball moves just about the same either way.

Is there something else I should try? I throw low 80’s right now


#2

Since you are a RHP, if you want the ball to tail in you need to throw a screwball (which is done via significant pronation of the forearm).

However, I’d question why you want to do this, not because the screwball is dangerous (which it isn’t), but because down and in is a dangerous spot to hit. Up and In and Down and Out are betters places to work.


#3

Since you are a RHP, if you want the ball to tail in you need to throw a screwball (which is done via significant pronation of the forearm).

However, I’d question why you want to do this, not because the screwball is dangerous (which it isn’t), but because down and in is a dangerous spot to hit. Up and In and Down and Out are betters places to work.[/quote]

screwballs are much slower then sinking fastballs

and to answer the 2nd question, i throw a cutter so I’d like more movement on my “opposite” pitch

plus I play in a league with wood bats, so if I run a pitch in on the hands its either gonna go 3 ft or shatter the bat


#4

Go to my post in the High School Ball thread and read on my 3SFB/Sinker. I put the URL in there just copy and paste it, and check out the picture. This is how I throw mine and it works fine. NOTICE-no pronation of the wrist is needed, a sinker is all about thrmb pressure, grip, and release.


#5

Chris, you are killin me here. Shall we pitch in fear? Down and in is no less productive than any located pitch when worked as part of an over all strategy. If I stay at any one location I am in trouble no matter where it is in the zone. The over-riding idea is to keep a batter off balance. A pitcher needs to take charge and control the at bat. Avoidance and worry will get you rocked. So many great pitchers throw TO contact not away from it. I never saw guru Marshall go out there with any other thought than attack. Set-up a guy to look away and then bust him in…you will, in the biggest majority of time be successful…i.e. ground out or swinging strike. The odds go higher for this as you get ahead in the count.
Now Taylor work to pronate the 2 seamer, possibly orienting to the 1st base side of the ball fingers wise, keep your hand behind the ball (What I mean is that I haven’t seen you throw so I can only give hints for better success, if your hand gets outside of the ball…say in a typical 3/4 delivery the action won’t work well at all).
But remember the lesson of Maddox, change speed AND location to keep people off balance…never be predictable…unless throwing batting practice, and be skeptical of folks that want you to operate in fear for any aspect of pitching.
Good luck.


#6

i do throw 3/4 and have a tendency to drop my arm a little bit, and when I drop I do stay outside of the ball. I can feel it and notice it when I do drop my arm, so I correct it the next pitch but its a common occurence.

I had a shoulder injury where I couldn’t throw at all for a few months so I lost some of that pitching muscle memory I suppose…

Like i said I read on wikipedia that “Each finger should be touching the seam from the pads or tips to almost the ball of each finger.”…previously I had been throwing it off the finger tip of my index…Which way is better?


#7

First thing to pay attention to is NOT letting your hand go outside of the ball, it is one fairly sure way to reaggrivate your shoulder, or aggrivate your elbow (Supinate is what it’s called and it isn’t “good” for the arm). I’m not the mech guy that Roger or some of the other guys are so I’ll defer to their/his suggestions. It is always good to get a trained eye to get a peek at you and give advice.


#8

I watched Maddux pitch in a game where he retired every batter after the first inning. His fastball speed never varied more than 1 mph after the first inning. He located his fastball at the speed he had the most control at and used off speed stuff to throw off timing.

Changing speeds with the fastball is most effective when you can throw 4 or 5 mph faster than your usual pitch, and even then it helps if you’ve set it up with an off speed pitch.

The easiest way to get tail on a fastball is to throw a 4 seamer from 3/4 or almost sidearm. You certainly don’t have to throw a screwball or anything of the sort. If you also want to get sink then play with finger pressure on a 2-seamer and/or turn it over slightly.

The reason screwballs have damaged arms is that a screwball requires excessive pronation beyond that which naturally occurs when throwing the ball. Just because Mike Marshall didn’t hurt his arm doesn’t mean that it is a safe pitch to throw. Sorry to introduce facts but my brother’s foster father destroyed his arm throwing screwballs.


#9

Man! CADad and JD from florida are right on with their advice about mixing speed and location! To me thats the whole key to pitching success (Maddox is a great example) Mixing spots (climbing the ladder) and changing speeds are going to definately upset a hitters timing, and If you observe how a hitter stands at the plate, and where his favorite pitch spot is you got the edge. You know what I mean? Like does the hitter uppercut the ball , swing down , pull his foot out , doesn’t rotate hips. drops the head of the bat on the swing etc. etc. If a pitcher can get used to watching for hitters flaws, and be able to go inside high & low and outside high & low and change speeds , that pitcher will do well. Screwball? well it’s just me but when I pitched way back in the 60’s I hurt my arm trying to master it. (never did get it down either) Bill


#10

The sidearm thing does work for movement… I throw a normal 4-seam fastball sidearm, and it turns into a sinker. Gets that great stiff downwards movement. I’ve developed a delivery where I can throw from both sidearm and 3/4, and it starts out the same for either, so the batter doesn’t immediately know.
I’ll need to get some video up of each.


#11

well thanks for trying but i’m not asking about location or changing speeds, or how to pitch in general…

my question was how can I get more tailing movement on a 2seam/sinker. I just want to know any tips on that one pitch if anyone has any to get additional sink and tail

I don’t want to throw sidearm so that won’t work for me, I try to throw everything from 3/4


#12

Most of the great sinkerball guys just pronate a bit earlier than most, getting more sink/run on the ball. Your best bet is staying through the ball.

Other things you can try are to rotate the ball so that one seam is between two fingers. I’ve talked to guys who throw it like this and when it’s thrown properly you’ll only see that one seam rotating end over end. You can also try experimenting with moving your thumb on the ball instead of just keeping it under the ball. Try moving it to the side of the ball.

Pitching is so individualized, you have to see what works for you.


#13

I’m righthanded and my two seamer does one of two things…

It either rises up and in to righties … or it hits the dirt.


#14

[quote=“palo20”]Most of the great sinkerball guys just pronate a bit earlier than most, getting more sink/run on the ball. Your best bet is staying through the ball.

Other things you can try are to rotate the ball so that one seam is between two fingers. I’ve talked to guys who throw it like this and when it’s thrown properly you’ll only see that one seam rotating end over end. You can also try experimenting with moving your thumb on the ball instead of just keeping it under the ball. Try moving it to the side of the ball.

Pitching is so individualized, you have to see what works for you.[/quote]

I get the feeling whether I pronate or just throw normal with the pressure on my index finger I get the same amount of movement, so I must not be getting the full affect I need when pronating. I feel like I’m getting decent spin on the ball but its definetly far less than the spin I get on a slider

I’ve also tried to get additional spin using my thumb. If I pronate and then spend my thumb downwards on the ball relatively hard I feel that should help speed up the rotation of the ball but it seems like everything I do is getting about the same 3 or 4 inches of movement without a ton of sink.

I may be pronating too late tho, like you said. I’ll try to start it earlier. I really am pronating pretty much on release as it is now.


#15

I throw the sinker/2SFB and about 90% of contact made by hitters are soft ground balls. I would work on getting your sinker down before working on the 2 seam


#16

a lot of righties have trouble hitting anything hard, or even making contact, at the pitch down and in. I’m surprised more pitches aren’t thrown to that spot. Certainly a good two seamer should end up there.


#17

Sinkers down and away tend to work well if you have good control but i prefer going high with the 4 seam