Starting and ending velocity


#1

I didn’t want to hijack a nice thread about Halladay, so I’m starting a new thread using a quote from that other one.

Don’t mean to pick on you JP, and I surely don’t want to denigrate the 2nd greatest pitching performance in post season history, but what you said about 1st and last FB’s being the same velocity is something I’ve been in a lot of discussions about over the years.

The perspective that sets me off the most, is people who claim they use a gun to tell when their pitchers have had enough. I don’t want to argue about this, but I would like to know if his having the same velocity at the end as the beginning surprised you, and for sure I’d like to know if you were influenced by your perceptions about it, or by some kind of study where guns were used to prove pitchers lose velocity over the course of their outing.

I’ve heard so many stories about this in the last 15 years or so, I haven’t got a clue what’s fact and what’s fiction. It may well be that for a 10YO it does happen, but for a ML pitcher it doesn’t, and in a way that seems logical. I can see how an inexperienced kid might go out an start the game throwing as hard as he possible can, and there’s no way anyone could keep that up for very long. But to tell the truth, I’ve heard there are people who gun every single pitch in a game played by kids of that age, but I’ve never seen one. :wink:


#2

I know that I started the stuff about Halladay being strong and my feeling wasn’t based on his FB but just the way he looked, demeanor, attitude, pace and confidence…I don’t know if he was tired but if he was he didn’t look like it, I think he could have gone 15 if he had to that night. I think we should throw all the guns out anyway, my kid doesn’t care for them except about 1x or 2x a year to judge if what he feels is true or not.

Great point scorekeeper, scorekeeper I know you made some comments to my kid too about situations and coaches calling pitches, you got him thinking quite a bit, he is dangerous when he is thinking (gets me a little nervous). By the way we both use the same account, probably should have 2 but we have both shared this one.


#3

[quote]I know that I started the stuff about Halladay being strong and my feeling wasn’t based on his FB but just the way he looked, demeanor, attitude, pace and confidence…I don’t know if he was tired but if he was he didn’t look like it, I think he could have gone 15 if he had to that night. I think we should throw all the guns out anyway, my kid doesn’t care for them except about 1x or 2x a year to judge if what he feels is true or not.
[/quote]

This represents more the feeling I had when I made that post.

My point was more to the fact that here’s a guy working at a fast pace, with the endurance to go 2 hours plus and still maintain, at least to my eye the same posture and mechanics as he did when he started. I think this is a tribute to his work and workout ethic.

I think the gun reading is a tribute to the consistency he showed over the course of the game. Would a lesser reading indicate he was tired- perhaps.

I don’t know but I suspect that posture and mechanics change before the gun reading does. IMO once the posture and mechanics change in order to maintain “gun numbers” a pitcher is likely recruiting energy from other sources and perhaps out of sequence, at least for a little while. Once the gun shows “fatigue” through a lesser reading the damage could already be done.

As far as Halladay having the same velocity at the end as the beginning it did not really surprise me rather it confirmed some things I have been thinking about regarding Halladay, his conditioning regimen as well as that of others, and staying healthy. There’s a saying in running “train past the distance”. IMO opinion Halladay has done that with his overall conditioning to the point that nine innings of work is just another day at the office.

I’m not saying other pitchers don’t train hard but injuries are such a part of pitching, and many say they start with overuse and fatigue, that I’m just wondering with Halladay if we’re not looking at the standard for conditioning pitchers in the future. As we see more and more hard throwers will everyone need his obsession with conditioning to stay healthy? Just wondering.

By the way does anyone know a current major league pitcher on the team that Halladay’s Arvada West High School team faced for the Colorado State Championship? I don’t believe they pitched against each other in that game but Colorado high school baseball had two studs in the finals that year.


#4

I like the idea that the gun is a “tribute” to his hard work, that really reflects my feelings exactly. Thanks!