Some Guys get the wrong impression


#1

People need to stop thinking that the arm has little to no relevance in pitching, it is the single most important element people!!! The arm is the last step in the linear train before the ball is released, it is the thing that transfers all the energy your body has built up into the ball, and it adds a significant amount of energy into the throw as well. Without a strong, healthy, well conditioned arm that travels with good speed, you are losing potential energy that could go into your throw.

So please stop thinking that the body throws the ball and the arm is along for the ride. The arm throws the baseball, but good fastballs are made with the combination of strong lowerbody, powerful core rotation, and MOST IMPORTANTLY an efficient arm action that transfers as much of that energy as possible into the baseball. The arm is only along for the ride in the same essense that an engine is just “Along for the ride” inside of a car.


#2

Actually, the arm as the engine of a car is the wrong analogy.

A car can be compared really well, when you think about it. Genetics are like the engine, set in stone and the untimate determination as to whether you throw 95 or drive 200. Mechanics are like the areodynamics of the car, a car with bad areodynamics could have a V-12 sitting under the hood but won’t go fast, just like a person could have a 100 mph ceiling but won’t throw that fast if the mechanics don’t allow it. COnditioning is like souping a car up, strengthening your core or legs is like adding a supercharger into a car, it can give a little engine a very big boost. And last but not least, to remain relevent to the OP, the arm is like the wheels. They take all the energy that the engine has built up and transfer it into the ground. Without good tires, even a F1 racer could get owned by a Toyota Camry.

This transfers well to the realm of pitching. A guy like Tim Lincecum is like a tiny little minicooper, while a Nolan Ryan type is more similar to a Lamborghini or a Mclaren. The Lincecum car is going to need to create as efficient of mechanics or be as areodynamic as possible to reach his ceiling. Hes also going to need to soup up his engine, or condition to reach higher. And finally hes going to need to build good racing tires, or a good arm up so that every ounce of energy gets transfered. DO all this and suddenly you have a tiny little MiniCooper thats doing 0-60 in 3.5 seconds and peaking out at 190. But the Ryan car inheritly does all that, and with a little conditioning and tuning up, he is still going to go faster.

I think its a good analogy, but I might have lost some of you lol


#3

seems to make good sence but lets see what others have to say


#4

i agree 100%

if you were to put 2 guys, identical in every way except for that 1 had a weak arm and the other had a strong arm, who would throw faster?

the guy with the stronger arm…

same mechanics, same lower body, core strength.

so all of you that say the arm is just along for the ride disagree with this example? you believe both men would throw the same speed?


#5

Actually this was targeting the people who believe they should work on lower body and core more than arm. So who would throw harder 2 people with same genetics same mechanics one spends the same amount of time on core and legs as the other does arms. Who wins?


#6

The one that works the core.


#7

[quote=“FSTBLLTHRWER”]People need to stop thinking that the arm has little to no relevance in pitching, it is the single most important element people!!! The arm is the last step in the linear train before the ball is released, it is the thing that transfers all the energy your body has built up into the ball, and it adds a significant amount of energy into the throw as well. Without a strong, healthy, well conditioned arm that travels with good speed, you are losing potential energy that could go into your throw.

So please stop thinking that the body throws the ball and the arm is along for the ride. The arm throws the baseball, but good fastballs are made with the combination of strong lowerbody, powerful core rotation, and MOST IMPORTANTLY an efficient arm action that transfers as much of that energy as possible into the baseball. The arm is only along for the ride in the same essense that an engine is just “Along for the ride” inside of a car.[/quote]

Mills would tell you that all energy originates in the stride and from that point on there is only energy transfer. Nyman, I think, would tell you that the arm experiences a whipping action and, from that standpoint, IS just along for the ride. Of course, this goes back to dm59’s question in another thread asking what all is considered part of the arm?

I don’t know whether the arm can supply additional energy beyond what the rest of the body has generated but I don’t rule that out. However, I am certain that the muscles of the arm help to not lose energy while it is transferred to the ball and they do help hold the arm together while it undergoes all of the forces put on it by the rest of the body.


#8

It’s very obvious that both the lower body and the arm aids in your power.

but

the question is what combination of our free time spent do we do. If I have free time with a throwing partner long toss or mound work. If i have time in the weight room how do i manage it. How much is dedicated to lower body and how much to arm strength?


#9

No, I’m not by any means saying that ther core/legs are not as important. They are very important, but just not as important as a strong, healthy arm. Think about it this way, say you are generating 100 mph with your lower body, but only 85% of that energy is transfered to the ball(I know these numbers are way off, but for the sake of not confusing everyone, just bear with me). Then suddenly you have a guy who could be pitching in the major leagues, tossing up 85mph BP to some independent league team.

All I was trying to say is that the arm is an extremely important part in the linear chain, not just “along for the ride” as some guys will try and teach us. I don’t think a pitcher should focus all his effort developing his lower body, or his core, or his arm. I think it should be an equal mix betweent the 3 so that as much energy as possible can be built up in the lower body and core, and then as much of that energy as physically possible can be transfered through the arm into the ball. You can create as much energy as you want with your legs and core, but if you don’t have a good enough medium to transfer it through (ie the arm) then you don’t have anything.


#10

I really would like to know what you guys think about how much time should be spent on your Lower Body vs. Your arm and all muscles involved.

what ratio do you guys think is most effective?


#11

the only thing spent on the arm would be tubing. That takes about 10 minutes.

Everything else should focus on balance and stabilization of the whole body.


#12

Well, aside from throwing obviously, the logic of tera-bands being the only thing neccesary is fair. I myself have become more of a full body workout buff myself, so my arms get a little more work than just that.

I do 3 seperate workout days,

Day 1-Chest/Shoulders
Day 2-Back/Arms
Day 3-Legs/Running/Core
Day 4-Rest
One more day of Core work inbetween Day 3’s, though not set in stone

And I try to be flexible because it is not easy to workout inseason. I use all pitcher friendly workouts that maximise flexibility and stability throughout my upper body. For example, I don’t use a Bar to Bench, I use two dumbells. This makes sure both sides of the pectoral and anterior deltoid get equal work, and also conditions and works the smaller stabalizers within the chest.

My Arm routine is pretty basic

For Biceps- 4x10 Rep Bar curls at 60 pounds, 3x12 Rep Dumbell curl at 20 pounds

For Triceps- 6x15 Rep Weighted Tricep Dips (25 pounds)

Forearms- 3x10 forearm curls at 20 pounds, 3x10 reverse forearm curls at 10 pounds

And Shoulders is even simpler, concentrating all the work on the deltoid, and not using any vertical presses(Like detonating a bomb within your shoulder for a pitcher). I also use a low weight/high rep approach, because deltoids don’t need high weight to grow.

For Anterior(Front) Deltoid- 4x8 rep front shoulder raises at 10 pounds

For Lateral(Side) Deltoid- 4x8 rep side shoulder raises at 10 pounds

For Posterior(Rear) Deltoid- 4x8 rep bent over reverse fly’s at 10 pounds

It is a very simple routine that keeps my arms strong and built, and I have only expirienced positive results since beggining it.

And as for Mariano’s question as too the percentage, I would say around 5% for someone like RIStar who only uses tubing work for their arm, and more around 15/20% for someone who is more into weightlifting like me.


#13

RIStar
There is more than working out than just tubing buddy. So FBT is that a 3 day split or what?
Me, my arms aren’t really that into my workout so much, I do alot of chin ups, and reverse chin ups, then the everyday thing of 25 push ups a day 3 times. Core and legs, I do alot of crunches, bridges, leg lifts, then the tiptoe things(no idea what it is called) sometimes with weights, minimal squats with high reps so I don’t injure my growth plates, wall sits, and a ton of running. I run every morning after eating an apple and some toast, then shower and eat some more, then in the nights sometimes I do some swedish training of running for a minute sprinting for 30 seconds etc. Then I do soupcan excercises(except with a 5 pound dumbell) for my arms and shoulders too. I do some other stuff among that. Basically, what I did was incorporate my summer workout our coach gave us, changed it up a bit for more baseball orientated stuff. I lucked out in having a sister who just graduated university and is now becoming a physical trainer.


#14

Yea I designed it myself, and in an ideal world, I will do hit my chest either the day or the day after I pitch, so 5 days later when I start again I’m feeling as little soreness as possible from working out.(Generally I feel none)

Yes, I also do alot of other stuff aswell like pushups and chinups, but those are on other splits. I could post it all if you’d really like, but it would take a while. Basically, I’m just pleased with my strength increase, and it closely mirrors the velocity increase I saw this winter. I went from benching a pitiful 30 pounds(I know, ridiculous) to repping 135 pounds with a bar, to repping dumbell presses with 45’s in each hand.


#15

I really would like to know what some of the moderators think about this question. What exerceise more. And maby what Steve’s Tuff Cuff was based around. How is that organized Lower body to arm wise?


#16

Who said I don’t do lower body.

Things I do are

YOGA For baseball
lunges
and balance one leg squats
And alot more that I don’t feel like writing down but thoughs are just to name a few.


#17

[quote=“FSTBLLTHRWER”]Yea I designed it myself, and in an ideal world, I will do hit my chest either the day or the day after I pitch, so 5 days later when I start again I’m feeling as little soreness as possible from working out.(Generally I feel none)

Yes, I also do alot of other stuff aswell like pushups and chinups, but those are on other splits. I could post it all if you’d really like, but it would take a while. Basically, I’m just pleased with my strength increase, and it closely mirrors the velocity increase I saw this winter. I went from benching a pitiful 30 pounds(I know, ridiculous) to repping 135 pounds with a bar, to repping dumbell presses with 45’s in each hand.[/quote]
Lets hear this workout, haha.
What was the increase in velo?
See for me, I guess I’m already in good shape for my age playing hockey all winter, and summer for a bit too, and the workouts I do there. But I’m a lean mean 130 at 5 foot 8. I’m basically a twig


#18

Well, its a pretty basic bodybuilding workout. My velocity increase was about 5-7 mph over the winter (From about 70-73 as a 13 year old to around 78-80 as a 14 year old) I don’t by any way say that this workout will give you that kind of boost, I’m not even saying that it is the workout that gave me the boost myself. All I know is that I came back throwing alot harder, and this was one of the only things I changed (I know mechanics and maturing probably did something aswell).

Day 1- Chest/Shoulders

3x10 Flat Dumbell Press @ 45 per hand
3x10 Incline Dumbell Press @ 45 per hand
3x10 Decline Dumbell Press @ 35 per hand
3x12 Incline Dumbell Fly @ 20 per hand
3x12 Decline Dumbell Fly @ 20 per hand
45 Pushups
3x10 Dips

5x10 Front Shoulder Raises @ 10 per hand
5x10 Lateral Shoulder Raises @ 10 per hand
5x10 Bent over lateral Shoulder Raises @ 10 per hand

Day 2- Back/Arms

4x10 Upright Rows @ 40
3x10 Bent Over Rows @ 75 (Supination Grip)
3x10 Bent Over ROws @ 75 (Pronation Grip)
3x10 Dumbell Shrugs @ 20 per hand
3x10 Barbell Shrugs @ 75

4x10 Barbell Curls @ 60
3x12 Hammer Curls @ 20 per hand
6x10 Weighted Tricep Dips @ 25
3x10 Forearm Curls @ 20 per hand
3x10 Reverse Curls @ 10 per hand

Day 3- Legs/Core/Running

5x10 Front Squats @ 100 pounds
4x12 Lunges @ 40 pounds (Per Side)
5x25 Calf Raises
(Core is a program currently on ONDEMAND under Exercise>Sports>Football>Core)
Running is 45 minutes on treadmill @ 140-160 HR

Day 4- Rest

Day 5- Pitch

I’m religious with this training, since last winter I’ve gained a solid 10 pounds of muscle, and haven’t had a sore arm or a dead arm all season. I also have an extremely clean diet, and eat about 180 grams of protein per day so I can build muscle up. I’m not endorsing this workout as a magic bullet to more velocity or anything, but it has kept me extremely conditioned and pretty ripped.