Shoulder Pain

I have been experiencing shoulder pain in the back of the shoulder in the rotator cuff. The pain lasts for a day or two then goes away. However the next time I throw it comes back and I feel it in the same area. any suggestions as to what it might be?

Petemarquardt,

[quote]“I have been experiencing shoulder pain in the back of the shoulder in the rotator cuff.
any suggestions as to what it might be?”[/quote]
You are tearing your Terres minor a small muscle that decelerated the arm when performing the traditional pitching motion. You can make mechanical changes in how you recover decelerate that uses the much larger terres major and latissimus Dorsi by pronating all your pitches and finishing with your elbow up instead of heading across and down your chest where it is leveraged against the surface area of your pectoralis major.
You must lock in your Humerus with the line across your shoulders (acromial line) at the start of your drive and finish with you Humerus still in line with your chest all while rotating your shoulders all the way forwards almost 180 degree, to do this you must abandon the back bend and back side anchored leg lift at recovery and punch it through while staying tall.

I’d suggest you get looked at by a doctor who knows shoulders. Don’t mess around or wait, get looked at, fixed and then look into ways to deliver the ball that are more efficient. Or even better, get some vid and get your delivery analyzed. The information you gave is in my opinion way too vague, we don’t know how old you are, what you’ve been doing, your delivery…really anything except you feel pain. Pain isn’t a sensation that should be associated with delivering the ball. Get it fixed first.

Yep, dr first then deal with the causes next, he will give you a good indication if you are injured requiring help or if rest will get you back into shape. Then you should consider what might be making it happen in the first place, some video would give us a better idea if there are flaws in your mechanics, I could come up with 2 or 3 technical issues that could cause the same injury so I don’t see how we could put our finger on one.

Jdfromfla,

[quote]“look into ways to deliver the ball that are more efficient.”
“Pain isn’t a sensation that should be associated with delivering the ball.”[/quote]
This is not a delivery injury!! It is a deceleration injury after release of the ball.
The fix for this is absurdly easy but you wouldn’t know it by the suggestions by most all pitching coaches everywhere. I would suggest he ask the Ortho Dr. what he thinks he should do to keep this from happening? If he has his act together he will tell him what it is and how to fix the mechanic, Oh wait, he can’t do this because they have no expertise in or education Kinesiological force application! These Dr’s never give this type of advice because of their solicitofobia and lack of knowledge in this area but I’ll bet most of them could.

He said it heals up just fine, indicating a muscle strain at the posterior upper back. So he starts the pitching process again over and over and irritates it again and again. The Terres minor is the injury all traditional pitchers attain in this area, the fix is mechanical if he is going to proceed with more pitching because it heals fast and he does not have pain, he continues, Dr’s always shut down muscle strain that makes it worse by not fixing the real problem, plus the atrophy associated with rest puts him even farther behind.

By who? Traditional pitching instructors teach the mechanic that got him where he is!
Buwhite thinks the way all laymen, most Dr’s and traditional pitching coaches think “or if rest will get you back into shape” when this is an oxymoron statement in that rest never gets you back into shape, Rest always = Atrophy when dealing with muscle strains and micro tearing and since he was healing within a few days, this is exactly what it is.

Rest does not equal atrophy. Do you not rest after an intense workout? In fact, if you are looking to build some muscle mass, eat a lot and don’t lift 4 days a week but maybe two. Rest will not atrophy right away but will allow the body to recuperate from the stress exerted on it.

As for changing mechanics? I’d say simply try to use your lower half more explosively and don’t push your arm to throw super hard. Work on stuff such as jobe’s or throwers 10 which strengthens the scapulae and rotator so that way it can more efficiently decelerate the arm. Super simple, but also super hard.

Yard, what a completely irresponsible thing for you to say, you don’t know this kid, nor his history, O’Leary actually stopped doing internet diagnosis several years back…I don’t care how much you look down on any non-Marshall community…we are here to be helpful not perform quackery. I don’t care what anatomical terms you use. There are MANY possible reasons for his pain, does the name Dravecky mean anything to you…?? Oh sure it’s the extreme but what the heck do you know (You know exactly what this kid said…which is open to interpretation…how many patients describe exactly what or where the first time in a poor communication platform as in an open forum?). His rotator could have a partial thickness tear, he could even be a Marshallite with a congenital issue…you don’t know, you can’t say, you shouldn’t say and won’t be allowed to do this without challenge.
And to think that if a doctor can’t tell a kid mechanically how to fix himself that he’s some how deficient is just ridiculous, he cares and is charged with fixing what ails us, he’s not a coach or trainer, he’s responsible for fixing the things we break through accident, or damaging behavior. I didn’t have the guy who repaired my hernia start telling me how to live my life…particularly without investigating many aspects of what may have caused it.

[quote=“yardbird”]Petemarquardt,

[quote]“I have been experiencing shoulder pain in the back of the shoulder in the rotator cuff.
any suggestions as to what it might be?”[/quote]
You are tearing your Terres minor a small muscle that decelerated the arm when performing the traditional pitching motion.[/quote]
I fail to see how one can make such a diagnosis over the internet based on such a brief and vague description.

How this pitcher’s arm finishes would be dictated largely by his arm slot which hasn’t, to my knowledge, been disclosed.

The symptoms described do not imply that the pitcher must switch to Marshall mechanics.

[quote=“yardbird”]Jdfromfla,

[quote]“look into ways to deliver the ball that are more efficient.”
“Pain isn’t a sensation that should be associated with delivering the ball.”[/quote]
This is not a delivery injury!! It is a deceleration injury after release of the ball.[/quote]
Well, I suppose that would be a reasonable guess.

So there are no ortho’s that understand kinesiology? Riiiiight.

He said it heals up just fine, indicating a muscle strain at the posterior upper back. So he starts the pitching process again over and over and irritates it again and again. The Terres minor is the injury all traditional pitchers attain in this area, the fix is mechanical if he is going to proceed with more pitching because it heals fast and he does not have pain, he continues, Dr’s always shut down muscle strain that makes it worse by not fixing the real problem, plus the atrophy associated with rest puts him even farther behind.[/quote]
So are you saying this kid should throw through the pain?

By who? Traditional pitching instructors teach the mechanic that got him where he is![/quote]
You’re making an assumption about the cause of the injury. We’ve heard nothing of any other activities that may have contributed to this. It’s very common for kids to complain of pain and not be able to recall any specific incident that may have caused an injury. This kid could have injured his shoulder in an unrelated activity but continues to aggravate it when pitching.

I don’t think buwhite meant that rest would get you “back into shape” in a conditioning sense. Rest provides time for an injury to heal without further aggravation. It is often followed up by physical therapy to regain and even increase strength.

CSOleson,

It sure does in the context in which it was given, 6 weeks of rest!

Nobody has suggested you vigorously train for 24 hrs straight every day now are they?

Correct interval training programs should be designed to have you train every day, this is the physiological fact. Professional body builders know this in that they train every day 8 hr’s a day, 365.
Baseball pitchers should train at least 45 min. to 1 ½ hr’s daily depending on their age. Adults should train year round daily and this time allotment is reduced as you get younger to just months at a time.

Right away means what? When the body has recovered from training (6 to 24 hours depending on if it was maintenance or vigorous off season) it immediately starts to atrophy. At this point the atrophytic rate is 1 ½ to 1 meaning for every 1 day you rest you loose 1 ½ days of previous fitness. This is a physiological fact.

This would make him even more powerful with his bottom half and would add stress to the top half not reduce it. Again and the reason for JD’s poor response from being challenged, this is not an acceleration mechanic injury it is a deceleration recovery injury.
I hope he is OK with your opinion on this mechanical issue, he was not when I gave mine.

This is a good and solid suggestion but if we were to go by JD’s complaint, he may be already doing this? There was not enough information for me to diagnose this so I am upset that you would make this irresponsible claim, not. Besides these exercises were invented by Jack LeLanne (RIP) not Jobe or Jaeger or anybody else and they are all the same no matter what name you put on them, they were invented to give house wives an easy non exhaustive daily workout that happens to be a good beginning rehab program and a maintenance prehab program.

Jdfromfla,
You are experiencing deja voo all over again and you do not see it by your reaction to suggestions that will help this kid who was not being helped before I chimed in. I do respect your opinion but I have seen so many of these posts go un answered where kids beg some one for answers that it compelled me to join in here and give some advise that will actually help.

Not really!! You have just immediately reacted after reading my post to being challenged, this is expected with knee jerk reactions and it happens like this every time. There is nothing irresponsible to asking a kid to change the way he finishes when he is continuing to pitch after he recovers in a very short time and this is what this Terres minor pull injury classically produces.

Sure I do, I understand how he pitches by back chaining the injury, it told me he performs the traditional pitching mechanic, If he were to post some game video or bull pen video we would see, of course.

What does the rank novice Little League father Chris O’Leary have to do with anything we are talking about? You need to go over to Paul Nyman’s new web site and read the disclaimer he has put in there to all readers new and old.

Is this how you look at my suggestions to help this kid, I looked down? On the contrary I look at it as looking up, Just a matter of perspective.

See what my challenge to your delivery statement has caused in you? Now you have reduced your subjectivity to name calling, I forgive you though knowing that you reacted out of anger and not clear thinking

Why would saying Terres minor upset you or anybody else? This is not like you at other web sites why here?

Agreed, I just gave one of them, in your mind this is a negative, in mime it is a positive start and the reason I said to the OP “when you see your Orthopedic Dr ask him”.

[quote]
“does the name Dravecky mean anything to you”[/quote]
Dave Dravecky was diseased! Who is being irresponsible now? Draveckies illness showed all of us just how much stress is placed on the Humerus when he broke it from Valgus stress by way of poor mechanics elevated by a cancerous bone. This is the same stress that degrades the UCL.
What a poor analogy when I suggested he only pulled his Terres minor.

And this is all I went by and no more, what he said and what I know! I was open to interpretation and I was trying to help this platform become a better place than just an open forum with no help at all by just my opinion. I have now gone way back by reading past posts and can’t say I have run into any information that would help these kids with any of there injury problems accept when coach45 was around. Mechanical suggestions should not upset you so.

No, these tears are much worse than the term partial lets you believe! A partial thickness tear in muscle takes many weeks for the pain to even subside, his pain was subsiding in a couple of days and repeated a few times, actually there is a lot of information here if you know what to listen for.

Well you didn’t got me there, I disagree once more!
A Marshall top half pitcher does not put over stress in this area and uses larger muscles to decelerate, this is why I knew it was not a Marshall top halfer and the little info he gave told me this. Again this is just my opinion, I know this! You apparently have lost sight of this but at the same time give yours by saying it was a delivery problem. Why are you not subject to your own complaint.

I’m perfectly OK with you challenging every thing I say!!! It is you who are having a problem with my opinion and an expert on the subject who is not even posting here.

You saying deficient is ridiculous here, I said they were not qualified by their education in Kinesiology, this is a fact not an opinion.

I totally agree with you here and I have not suggested that he does not see a Dr., I was dealing with the cause not the affect, can you see the difference?

If the Dr. finds out the history of your hernia cause, like say jumping off a large boulder he would tell you how to live your life now wouldn’t he?

This all I have done and it was from the suggestions by an actual expert in this field who originated the discovery that you are having a problem with, this is on you not me, I will continue to be positive and convey proper information whether you have a problem with it or not, again it is just an opinion on a message board for people who are not getting any help or answers. Maybe you should start looking into the information yourself for a change instead of listening to those that can only complain and then repeat it.

Roger,

He told me all I needed to know! I to would have wanted more information agreed. I do not believe his explanation was vague in the least. If you have had exposure to the information I have, you would have said the same thing, I think? Maybe not!

I agree that the drive arm vector directs the finish recovery when there is involuntary finish muscle contractions.
What I was talking about was a voluntary recovery finish muscle contractions that are easy to perform. It is easy to backwards chain this injury to its mechanical cause in that traditional pitchers attain it all the time, his arm vector is from 1 o’clock to 2 o’clock with many supinated pitches.

Dr.Marshall does not own the rights to mechanics that others perform also.
He does have particular mechanics that he recommends that are non injurious. This is one of them. All though this mechanic may be new to your understanding it is old to mine, perhaps you have some reading to do to catch up to understand this, or not. The kid did ask for some help, I gave my opinion based on this understanding. All I suggested was that he keep his Humerus in line with his shoulders and pop his elbow up and pronate his pitches and this is the response I get from administrators? I wonder what the owner of the site feels about this sudden ganging up?

High lighting guess leaves the readers with the thought that while you are agreeing you are not quit sure when I have seen many posts here where the same thing is said in much deeper explanation than mine and you did not respond in kind. What gives?

Wrong, this statement falls under the category of gray area’s where you have made the mistake of using the word’s “no Ortho’s” that is all or nothing. I believe Orthopedic surgeons are not required to take exercise physiology, Kinesiology and motor performance classes like a Kinesiologist is required to. Can you imagine the time that would take? They would be in school for 18 years instead of 12. I do believe they take educated guesses though.
If you asked an Orthopedic surgeon why one of the 4 rotator cuff muscles and this one in particular the terres minor that emanates right where the OP said the pain was, he would say it is a deceleration muscle also but would not give advice on how to attain a change in mechanics to do something about that manifested cause because if he did and the athlete injured something else he would be subject to mal-practice by way of his non-expertise in the field.

No, he said there was no pain after it heals!!! Good information!!
I am saying he should change the mechanic that gave him this particular problem that he did not change that he continues to cause the problem with.

Has anybody else? It is an educated assumption based on the history of this particular mechanic that everybody performs.

You mean like having bone marrow cancer like Dave Dravecky?
He said he was injuring it from pitching, this was the information that was given and from there it is an easy call when you have been taught what to look for. I believe the trouble you are having is you have not had this training yet or a resource that can give it to you? You do know where to go to get it though, why have you not done this?

Agreed but this is not the case here now is it, he told us the pathology in his certain terms.

That’s a long shot having heard his explanation that while short was compendiary.
The mechanical change advice would still have been the same.

Yet he used a conditioning example! but I know what you mean, do you understand what I mean by when there is a muscle pull or micro tear the best remedy is light stimulation and not rest as all Dr’s believe?

You must be specific when giving medical advice, is that not what you are complaining about here to me on all these matters that you may not have experience with or believe because of this experience?

You are preaching to the quire here and you are escalating the scenario, why?
Thanks for the chat Roger, I do respect your opinion and hope you would have gone into that other thread about separation and given your opinion and not someone else’s.

No I was commenting on your derision towards the physicians I requested the player look into, that is also very typical behavior on the part of folks who expouse what you do…I don’t necessarily care how you’d like to train your pitchers…success will dictate whether or not over time you’ll keep doing in in the “real” world…nope, I noticed the kid wanted help and you provided your advice…I respect it.
I stop at diagnosis, the O’Leary ref had to do with that…He used to come on every site on earth as you very well know and gave diagnosis…as a come on to look at his site or whatever he thought he was doing. Now if you have credential…you wouldn’t have made a diagnosis…period…there isn’t a supportable argument…what do you do??? That Voodoo that you do…you quibble…“not really”? Ok lets ask the medical community if it is responsible behavior…I mean who is the judge? Well on LetsTalkpitching.com, we have 3, Steven Ellis, Jim Dedmon (Me) and Roger Thomas, we judge internet diagnosis as incorrect and irresponsible. We encourage you to find a site that will support that behavior, this site is not one of them.

And let me disclaim the classifying you among "Marshallites…I respect you Yard, you work hard with kids, I don’t think you are a particularly blind idealog but the “typical” things…like the structure of your reponse, the cliche’ negative comments on other approaches…
I really thought very highly of the method of approach you’ve started out here on…but to throw the barbs at Roger like he’s mindless…come on…he goes to House clinics, he speaks directly to the man…but he certainly doesn’t come off as the blind follower…copying by rote every nuance of Tom House as the Marshallites…AS A RULE do, is glaringly hypocritical at best and bad form chum.

[quote]

Quackery is the practice of fraudulent medicine, usually in order to make money or for ego gratification and power[/quote]

[quote]“we are here to be helpful not perform quackery”

See what my challenge to your delivery statement has caused in you? Now you have reduced your subjectivity to name calling, I forgive you though knowing that you reacted out of anger and not clear thinking [/quote]

I didn’t call you a quack, but said that the behavior you were exhibiting was quackery, it is incorrect to attempt diagnosis from a single paragraph, advice on how to fix him is as numerous as ip addresses on the internet, until it is discerned what is wrong…and this Dirt is where you miss the point I made with Draveky, it could be much worse and ignoring it isn’t in the players best interest. Now you’ve established a good repore with him and he may be open to the methods you expouse, this is how you get people to your court and I have zero problems with the help you wish upon the kid…I think though, you reacted to my statement more so…you gave him advice, I gave advice, not mentioning your comments at all, at that point you come in with the negative and begin to ridicule…not me personally, just about everything in the community your are currently dissatisfied with though…
I simply expressed the editorial right this site claims…in a way that was designed not to stop your participation, but just this behavior.
You’ll have to work very hard to get be “angry”, though sometimes my writing style may lend to the thought because of direct honesty, don’t misunderstand, anger isn’t the compelling factor here.

The complaint this boy has is absolutely a manifestation of pain associated with a partial thickness tear (I’d accept Dr. Fleisigs or any other doctor at ASMI’s opinion on that). It manifests, then, after he removes the source of irritation, the pain subsides only to return when the source is reapplied. I don’t doubt that he could have a pull, you have good experience and it may just be the case…The alternative though is unthinkable and unnecessary, by simply advising treatment from a doctor.
Don’t get all bristley, “worked up” or whatever you want to call it, just because we have this position.

By Michael Codsi, M.D.

[b]Partial rotator cuff tears are responsible for pain and loss of arm function in thousands of patients every year. The pain is usually located on the side and front of the shoulder, and it is made worse when patients try to raise their arms to the side and above their shoulders. When the partial tear worsens, patients can experience pain when making any motion away from their side, and the constant ache can keep them awake at night.

The diagnosis of a partial rotator cuff tear can be made by an experienced doctor who listens to the patient’s symptoms and performs a thorough physical exam. An X-ray may be taken to eliminate other common causes of shoulder pain, such as calcific tendonitis or arthritis. An MRI of the shoulder is only needed if physical therapy does not work as expected. For a partial rotator cuff tear, an MRI will show a thin, worn tendon with fluid on top of it from the irritation.
In order to understand how physical therapy and other treatment options eliminate shoulder pain, patients need to understand how the rotator cuff works. The end of the arm bone is a ball that connects to a shallow cup in the shoulder blade bone. Four different muscles connect to the ball through four tendons, which are needed to move the ball of the shoulder in the cup. The tendons blend together around the shoulder ball. If some of the tendon detaches from the bone, then the muscles cannot rotate the arm bone, and the patient feels weakness in the arm.

Eventually the tendon will tear completely, but before that happens, it becomes worn, like an old, frayed shoe lace that is about to break. This is a partial tear of the rotator cuff. The tendon is still attached, but it is worn and thin. Irritation of the partially torn tendon can cause mild to severe pain, depending on the size of the tear and the amount of irritation it causes in the tissue around the tendon.
The goal of treating a partially torn rotator cuff tendon is to allow the irritation of the tendons and the bursa around the tendons to cease. This can be done with rest, activity modification, ice, heat, and over the counter pain medications.

Once the pain improves, a physical therapy program can be used to:

  1. Regain any loss of motion of the shoulder.
  2. Strengthen the muscles around the shoulder blade.
  3. Practice proper posture and shoulder mechanics to avoid unnecessary stress on the rotator cuff tendons.
  4. Strengthen the other rotator cuff tendons that are not partially torn.
  5. Return to normal activities.

Accomplishing all 5 goals can take several months.

Some patients are unable to participate in physical therapy because the pain from the partial tear is too severe. For these patients, a steroid injection around the irritated tissue on top of the rotator cuff can stop the pain, allowing patients to do therapy. The injection is not a cure for the problem - it is more like a Band-AidTM that temporarily protects a cut on the skin while the body heals. Some patients need more than one injection, and while multiple steroid injections can cause tendon damage, the risk is small unless multiple injections (more than 3 to 4) are given in a short period of time, i.e., 1 year. Most steroid injections are not very painful if given by a doctor who is experienced in giving such injections.

When 8 to 12 weeks of therapy and an injection do not help alleviate the pain of a partial rotator cuff tear, surgery can be considered as a treatment option. The surgery can be done arthroscopically. An arthroscope is an instrument with a tiny camera on the end that can be inserted through small incisions around the shoulder and used to examine the shoulder and rotator cuff tendon. The irritated bursa on top of the tendon will be removed, along with any bone spurs that may be contributing to the pain. If the partial tear can be repaired, the surgeon will place sutures through the end of the tendon and tie the tendon to the bone.

The sutures will hold the tendon against the bone so that it heals there. This healing process takes 12 weeks, so the patient must protect the arm while the tendon is healing. Any lifting or reaching with the arm could pull the tendon through the sutures, meaning the repair will not heal. After the tendon heals, the patient can start a physical therapy strengthening program. The entire recovery can take a full year, but most patients no longer feel a constant ache in the shoulder after 6 to 8 weeks.[/b]

This just one possible cause…now what is wrong Yard with making certain first and then moving forward…the reason I said to get it looked at with no delay is that, as you know, the recovery period is very long as noted in the article above.

jdfronfla.

This response is typical everywhere!
I have given no medical diagnosis, it purely a Kinesiological diagnosis.
You have now escalated your response to include a non-pertaining diagnosis of the subscapularis muscle at the top of the shoulder and front. This injury culminates in surgeries all the time and much worse than the Terres minor and its associated problems. the Terres minor never results in surgery and is easily mitigated.
You have now escalated your response by saying I called Roger Mindless, why? When this is false. Roger may teach some of Marshalls recommended mechanics for all I know?
You have now made another personal attack saying I use Voodoo.

The supportable argument was the backwards chaining of the offending mechanic and time line of the action that was deceleration problems again a Kinesiological call out.
I’m not sure but I think Roger agreed but you did not admonish him, Why?

So then why do you allow it in everybody else for the last 5 years here?
Kinesiological diagnosis is one of the tools to mitigate these problems.

I would sure like to hear Stevens take on not allowing kinesiological diagnosis?

Calling it irresponsible because you do not have these answers yourself and then stifling them is irresponsible in my view especially when help can be gleaned from them, like I said and all I said was medical Dr’s are not going to give this advice, they only direct you to the source that attained the original problem.

I see your painful personal response here by asking me to leave.
What say you Roger Thomas?
What say you Steven Ellis?
Again this is typical everywhere and will not help youth pitchers eliminate the scourge of these unnecessary injuries.

You mean commenting on the particulars of the traditional injurious pitching motion?
This pitching mechanic caused this deceleration injury, why not mention that?

[quote]“copying by rote every nuance of Tom House as the Marshallites…AS A RULE do, is glaringly hypocritical at best and bad form chum[/quote]”
So a guy like me who is known nationally as having formed a Marshall hybrid is glaringly hypocritical at best and bad form chum? More personal attack escalation from a moderator no less. I have never seen this side of you anywhere else. So what? You prove them wrong and the count goes up.

What’s the difference, you ducked me big time here!

Realize while it is incorrect for you if you believe this, I do not believe it for me because of what I have been exposed to for 40 years. The paragraph contained good enough information and I would have been OK with more.

I see no other Marshall certified instructors on the internet that has practiced the tenets on hundreds of clients for over a decade, can you name me another one, let alone as numerous as IP addresses?

When this information is unknown to you I can understand why you react this way but I believe you are reacting to my presence not this particular recommendation to keep his humerus in line with his shoulders because this is a typical injury with his mechanics.

Ridiculing an injurious mechanic is a positive in my view and I never make it personal and keep it in the realm of mechanics, always, you know this by having read my responses in the past elsewhere.

I take asking me to leave as what it is! My behavior in stating truths may be alarming to you but I’m sick and tired of these injury problems persisting about 15 years ago when they are totally unnecessary by way of the mechanical diagnosis behavior, If you will notice I usually post only on injurious effects after the fact.
The separation debate that turned into name calling because of the alarming facts presented was a first for me because I thought this site finally would be a place where cordial debate of the truth as seen and discovered could be hashed out, it is sad to learn this site is just like all the rest accept one by way of it’s well meaning but traditionally oriented moderators who only want the statis quo to continue to the destruction of youth pitchers everywhere who visit here, I hope you are happy by satisfaction, that I am not.

The source took several innings each time, this is valuable information and you said there was little information when if you listen there is much information if you know what to hear for against what you know.

The recommendation was to change the mechanic to use other muscles to decelerate, eliminating the use of the Terres minor but you were not putting this together because you were to busy thinking of how you relate to the problem and not the answer I gave.
There are more severe Terres minor injuries that have associated pain for much longer periods of time, these would be partial thickness tears not the one he explained with his short but useful information.

I never said one thing about not visiting a Dr!!! this is the tenth time you have associated something to me that I did not say. Please stop this irresponsible behavior.

This is your call again and your kettle and pot.

“By Michael Codsi, M.D.

Rotator cuff injuries are distinct area injuries! The one he is explaining are associated with deceleration and acceleration, the subscapularis and supraspinatus and are often operated on because of severe tearing. The Terres minor is seldom if ever operated on, I personally have never heard of one although believe in it possibility. The terres minor is a deceleration mechanic only. This abstract does not help here! This sentence is apropos here “patients need to understand how the rotator cuff works” in that the rotator cuff is 4 distinct muscles that perform different functions, I explained the one we are concerned with and how to alleviate the stress through an easy mechanical change. I believe pitching coaches should know how they work also!

Notice he is talking about tendons here because this is what is injured mostly with the subscapularis and supraspinatus and tendons take a long time for pain to subside and do not repair themselves often especially if the mechanic is repeated.
Here is the best suggestion that was offered in the article here that I proposed here in the thread.“3. Practice proper shoulder mechanics to avoid unnecessary stress on the rotator cuff tendons.” Muscles should have been added here also. Notice he did not give what the proper mechanical application was!!

I saw no mechanical cause offered in the article, remember medical Dr’s are not Kinesiologists and there is nothing wrong with seeing a medical Dr. for injuries, I have never said any different, there you go again as Reagon once said.

The information given was he recovered with in days and then continued with the same mechanic and actually pitched for innings before reoccurrence as you should now understand! There was actually a lot of information in his short paragraph.

Now I will leave per your recommendation, hopes and wishes so that this site will continue to admonish mechanical mitigation by a so called Marshalite like all other sites do and the proliferation of mal-mechanics can continue with your approval to the detriment of all youth pitchers who visit here and their parents. Now you can let it be said by all who bad mouth Marshall and his tenets go uncontested as in the past.

I was hoping I could get to the mitigation of UCL injuries before I was removed but I guess this injury will have to continue under your watchful eye for the ones that visit here. We will be able to see how nothing is said about the mechanic that causes it and ones that eliminate this injury and see it’s continuation after surgery plus it’s very poor and inadequate rehab recommendations.

Qubbling right out the door…

I said and was specific, if you wish to continue to diagnose via the internet, that we encourage you to go to a place that it is allowed. Again, I said and meant it. Now if that is the condition of you staying (That we allow you to continue to diagnse and prescribe remedy…specifically) then adios amigo…I’ll see you other places you post. I wasn’t stopping you from doing anything but that and look at the long rambling reaction you throw back. Look stay on point, or don’t, If I wanted to "stiffle you I could do as I have seen others do and simply make you disappear, I could exclude your dialog and make it stick. We don’t as a rule do that.
You can keep ratcheting this up as you wish but you cannot controvert my points, you’ve just tried to continue to attack.
You can presuppose that I am name calling or that I am acting out of concert with the others who administer this site. It all looks like desperate attempts by someone who lost an arguement, got caught and called out for doing something you know is wrong and want some kind of dramatic confrontation to…who knows? Make people believe LTP is “bad” because we won’t let you do that…and recommend that the kid goes to a doctor.
:roll:

I agree with JD, a doctor, specifically an orthopedic surgeon is going to be the best bet for him to find out if he has torn anything within the arm and I highly suggest that he does it! Neither you nor me can decide what he has done to his arm over the internet. To do so would be impossible, we can only give suggestions and my suggestion is he see’s someone who can actually help him, not you or me.

As for the atrophy, you are incorrect about time with which to train. The body does not necessarily recover within a specific time period. You don’t know external factors or someones life, and believe it or not, you can maintain muscle over an extended period of time.

Also, to the original poster, I still suggest that you look up blackburns exercises, throwers ten, or jobes. They all can provide benefits to your arm down the road and now. Take time to take care of yourself, that is what is important.

[quote=“yardbird”]…iit compelled me to join in here and give some advise that will actually help.[/quote]What you’ve been doing here is claiming that you’ve said nothing about Marshall’s methods, yet your “…advice that will actually help…” is Marshall mechanics. You don’t mention him but you recommend his method. Yes, it’s non-injurious. However, it has not yielded pitchers who can compete successfully at high levels, with velocities even approaching those using traditional methods. Telling kids to use elements of his method when they have no idea what they’re getting themselves into is simply confusing them.

Marshall’s pitching mechanics may not be non-injurious. Why was an unnamed professional pitcher complaining of severe radiating pain in his forearm when he was using Marshall’s delivery in pro ball?

Sometimes it may happen in our shoulder joints which can be swelled due to some reasons that cause of pain physical therapy is the best option in this scenario…