Seven Golden Rules For Every Throwing Program

In a hurry… Wanna hear your thoughts

http://baseballthinktank.com/the-seven-golden-rules-for-every-throwing-program/

I prefer actual long toss to throwing with maximum intent into a net whenever possible.

There is a lot of positive feedback and confidence boost from seeing the progress in distance made from an actual long toss program…you won’t get the same feedback from throwing to a net, unless there is a radar gun involved.

Goes beyond personal feedback, too…everyone can see who is able to air it out to 300+ ft…creates a competitive atmosphere.

I do believe in throwing to a net when there is no long toss partner available, or the weather is bad.

Great stuff thinktank.

I think in long toss you stretch out to pull down. I’m not going to have the same type of pull down with 120 feet of throwing as compared to 300 ft of throwing. For the most part I agree with everything you say. I personally am I big time long toss guy, i don’t think I would be where I am without it, so I will always be a little biased towards really stretching it out. Good stuff though.

[quote=“laflippin”]I prefer actual long toss to throwing with maximum intent into a net whenever possible.

There is a lot of positive feedback and confidence boost from seeing the progress in distance made from an actual long toss program…you won’t get the same feedback from throwing to a net, unless there is a radar gun involved.

Goes beyond personal feedback, too…everyone can see who is able to air it out to 300+ ft…creates a competitive atmosphere.

I do believe in throwing to a net when there is no long toss partner available, or the weather is bad.[/quote]

Laflippin,

Good stuff, I agree. However, in this part of the country, it’s difficult to get outside and/or have access to really get after it in long toss.

I would never tell a player he couldn’t long toss. Thanks for the reply

That’s great! I have a lot of pitchers that feel this way. One thing I have found is that once guys understand the importance of intent, it really doesn’t matter and I’m sure your one of the guys I’m talking about. I’m sure you get after it in your throwing program.

The more freedom and ownership a coach can give to players, the faster the development process speeds up. So, if you believe it helps you I would NEVER think about changing that!

I think Think that there is iron in your 7 rules words…

I would also caveat that max effort on bad mechs is bad business, so it would seem important to have them ironed out as much as possible before endeavoring to “let it go” with any abandon.

[quote=“jdfromfla”]I think Think that there is iron in your 7 rules words…

I would also caveat that max effort on bad mechs is bad business, so it would seem important to have them ironed out as much as possible before endeavoring to “let it go” with any abandon.[/quote]

So at what point can a pitcher let it go? Do they wait until they have “good” mechanics to try and throw at max effort?

Does that same rule apply to “long toss”, only players with good mechanics should long toss?

My opinion is that it is an incremental development, as I work a pitcher and he builds in all the ways, then so goes velo. Don’t get me wrong Think, you’ve seen me promote Nymans “intent” cue (If not trust me I’ve backed it throughout my time here), I just personally think that there are times when it is not only ok but important not to focus on gas for the sake of gas…intent is crucial to develop higher velocity…but if you aren’t properly fortified (With solid mechs AND great conditioning, diet etc.) the pathway gets obstructed with injury.

I agree to a certain extent… I think that’s why it’s so important that the pitcher learn his limitations and that the limitations aren’t supplied by someone else.

I’ve also found that whenever you keep the goal simple and you provide feedback the body finds the best way to make that happen.

I’ve also found that the more a pitcher throws the ball, the more accustomed the arm becomes to throwing. That’s where I agree with your pathway comment.

[quote]I think that’s why it’s so important that the pitcher learn his limitations and that the limitations aren’t supplied by someone else[/quote].

Amen…if you want to play at the very upper reaches a guy had better understand how to self-correct and when.

If I’ve got a kid with bad mechs…I’m fixing before the intent phase of his throwing development…I’m not asking a kid to willy-nilly wing it in a case where it may exacerbate a flaw…head violence as an example, I don’t see the gains there and see lots on the downside.

If I’ve got a kid with bad mechs…I’m fixing before the intent phase of his throwing development…I’m not asking a kid to willy-nilly wing it in a case where it may exacerbate a flaw…head violence as an example, I don’t see the gains there and see lots on the downside.[/quote]

Interesting point…

I think a lot depends on the age of the individual. After a certain age, good look “fixing” anything. I think you can influence but that guy may never get to the intent phase if your hoping to totally rid him of head violence.

That’s why I say give him a simple goal. I would ask the question “what is the product of head violence and how would you change it?”

Fixing may not be a true reflection but “building” may be a better representation (I’m figuring you are talking young kids here)…like I said though…I’m not precluding the intent side, I made a caveat, a warning, that it would be benefcial to consider the ramifications and weight the costs.

I like long toss because it feels good…it’s fun and helps with “other” positions, particularly in a young kid…can help develop coordination that can correct flaws…so intent side can fix mech side…or build it.

If I’ve got a kid with bad mechs…I’m fixing before the intent phase of his throwing development

I agree with Think Tank. My son is to the point I don’t think we’re going to change his mechanics. He’s a high arm slot guy; not pleasing to your eye. Lots of shoulder tilt (and head also), but he throws hard and gets good movement and has excellent control. We’ve been able to get some good advice off this site. Working on reducing the head tilt and correcting the stride direction has definitely helped. Regardless of what we do the shoulders will still tilt and the head to some extent and he doesn’t have a long stride although it’s in an “acceptable range” . He’s very durable and never seems to have a sore arm. When the intent to throw hard is there it seems to solve the stride direction (not towards 3rd base for RH). He’s not going to be a high 3/4 guy & I think it would be a mistake to force him to be one. He is 14 years old (5’8 and less than 125 lbs) ; throws mid 70’s (gunned with a stalker), throws 4S & 2S FB, 4S, 2S & cutter change, and two curves. One is sweeping and the other is a hard late break. Threw a no hit shut out in championship game late spring in tournament ball and missed by an inning in fall in another championship game. Finished with 3 BB & 12K’s. Not saying to brag on him, but mechanics reviews have been less than stellar. I am to the point where if I’m going to push him in a direction it will be intent to throw hard. By the way; he loves long toss and does in warm ups prior to every game he starts.

Jd,

That’s my angle as well.

I’m not against long toss, in fact I like it. However, my point is that long toss isn’t building arm strength or arm speed, it’s the Intent side of long toss that takes care of that.

Any kid below age 13 “ish” my main focus would be on arm action after that it’s more about influencing versus changing.

My goal I think is to get folks beyond the drill rhetoric and get to the nuts and bolts of the art we help develop.

So many more things than little drills go into the building of a pitcher. Most of the very quality instructors I’ve met were guys who got into the mind of their student and enlightened them on the path… contributory help and no more. I talk to enough House guys to know that the pro’s who go to him already know “drills”…more than I can name or demonstrate, they had the whole fandango of conditioning expertise and equipment…they have trainers and masseuse’, more than likely they even have a cute wife 8) but when House, starts that adjustment process, positive things get to happening…which is why they (As in MLB pitchers in need) still beat a path to his door…like Zito and Cole Hammels.

My constant advice to people who ask, is that when searching for an instructor, look for someone who doesn’t “hang his hat” on dogmatic rhetoric, but takes each student and addresses their need, individually. Some guys may not even “need” drill work help.

Well said JD. I think this applies to many areas of life. The arts (I do consider high level athletics as artistic) maybe to some degree more than other things. In music, spirituality, counseling, teaching…in all these things the best teachers I have had were super knowledgable without being super dogmatic. As one progresses down their road in whatever sport they are trying to master (thats a laugher) they reach that point where they are confronted with the toughest field to conquer…the one between their ears.

No doubt. The intent behind the drill or lack of drills molds the individual, not the coach. The coach can be a primary influencer but its the intent that shapes the individual.

The best coaches know when to get out of the way and rid the need of an external coach.

My son’s pitching coach will often sit back and just watch his bullpen. Instead of immediately offering advice, the PC will simply tell him to “make the adjustment” and allow him to make adjustments on his own first, followed by suggestions if needed.

Consequently my kid has learned to know his body and know how to feel his mechanics. Both of which have made it easier for him to make slight adjustments on the fly.