Setting up hitters

[OffSet]

i havent had much coaching and know no one with any kind of pitching knowledge (except the pitching coach ive seen once or twice)

so, how do u set up hitters?

i like to throw fastball down and in, fastball away (0-2) then curve in the dirt and if theyre still up there curve inside for the K

[Defalco32]

I like to start off with throwing 2 knuckle curves in the zone, then i try to blow by a fastball, if they're still there, another knucklecurve (will usually change the pronation amount to increase more 12-6 or more 3-9) and then if they're still there, a changeup to stay around the same speed, without the movement, and they usually swing under it, another fastball after that if needed.

[Coach_Henderson]

wat i like too do is Throw them a fastball low and idc where just as long as its a strike VERY important to get ahead in the count then usually i will try to throw it up and away like u said then if its not early in the game i will throw a Change up it really messes with them seeing u pitch it like a fastball only 10-15 MPH less than ur fastball. if its early in the game i will usually throw the change up late in the game if my arm is feeling good i will throw a fastball low and away if that doesn't do it then i screw with them a bit and throw a knuckle curve but only on right handed hitters.

other than that my set up pitch is the change up great pitch man great pitch!

[Defalco32]

throw a knuckle curve

Who do you think you are, me? Welcome to the amazing world of the knuckle-curves.

[ian_demagi]

Have you figured out how you get most batters out? What arm slot do you throw from? 2 to 8 curve is going to be more effective against same side hitters and not as good against opposite side hitters.
Have you considered a down breaking pitch?

If you provide some more details, I will try to give you some strategies that should work. Ian.

[Tanner_Lorenz]

guys, setting up hitters is not a set thing...the big thing with setting up hitters is getting them guessing, if you have a 2nd pitch, use it, but dont get predictable, and also, it depends on the team, if they take fastballs, get a strike on them right away, if they hit up in the count, throw offspeed 1-0 2-0 and try get a strike or groundball, throwing 2 knucklecurves and then a fastball is just asking for trouble, good hitters adjust and will start to see the 2nd one, mix up speeds, mix up location, arm slots dont mess up hitters when you get to high levels, you just have to be smart and not get too predictable

[jdfromfla]

And just a little addition to Tanners great take, look at what the batter presents, if he's looking outside, well go either, way outside or up and out then if he leans bust him in. If you see him all jinked up for a fb then come with the change, open stance work stuff looking middle and have it move out (Cutter/slider).
The big deal is to give him more than one look, inside, outside, up, down, don't allow someone to get comfortable...if he's trenching in, throw at his feet...mess him up. This is why in high school and above the old saw of "just throw strikes" will likely get you burned...you have 4 balls to work with, use them, get an early strike and see if you can get the guy to go on a fishing trip....the majority of swinging k's happen out of the zone. Attack with your strength to his weakness and then use the advantage in the count to get the batter on something not on the barrel.
Always remember if you don't tip your pitches, only the defense knows whats coming, that is an advantage...use it.

[Defalco32]

guys, setting up hitters is not a set thing...the big thing with setting up hitters is getting them guessing, if you have a 2nd pitch, use it, but dont get predictable, and also, it depends on the team, if they take fastballs, get a strike on them right away, if they hit up in the count, throw offspeed 1-0 2-0 and try get a strike or groundball, throwing 2 knucklecurves and then a fastball is just asking for trouble, good hitters adjust and will start to see the 2nd one, mix up speeds, mix up location, arm slots dont mess up hitters when you get to high levels, you just have to be smart and not get too predictable

I will usually throw one in and then one out. But yeah, I see what you're saying.

[copecowboy]

like jd and tanner said think about what the hitters looking for and try to do the opposite. If you can throw your offspeed for strikes consistently your way up on them already. It also helps a ton to know your opposition, if your team does charts on what they did previous AB's and what they chased go over them with your catcher prior to the game and adjust, every guy is going to have their tendencies, you just need to figure them out.

[Steven_Ellis]

A great way to learn how to set up hitters is to watch MLB games on TV. Especially on FOX, you'll get pitch-by-pitch breakdowns and you can learn an awful lot from them. One thing I continually notice is how the best pitchers, on their best days, get hitters out not by throwing strikes ... but by throwing balls. In other words, they're not grooving the ball over the plate, but they're pitching off the corners -- up and down, in and out. It's impressive, and it can be applied right on down through college and high school ball.

[Bretzke]

Steve-

I've been looking at Perry Husband's research on effective pitching velocity.

What's your take on his research?

[jdfromfla]

Jon Papelbon gave a presentation at one of the clinics I've attended on this very subject. He talked about how to use a purpose pitch to facillitate other pitches, commenting that using a pitch on one batter can set up several batters down the order. Maddux does it all the time. In my favorite example game (His 1st with the Dodgers against Jason Schmidt July 2006), he threw 1 curve ball...to Barry Bonds, it was out of the zone and unhittable, but it made Barry change his eye level and Greg got him out every time that game..even on a ball that went to the warning track you could tell that he had just enough late movement and speed change to get Barry just slightly off and to hit it to the longest part of the yard. That curve set-up the other at bats. I have seen good pitchers blow a fb down the middle on the lead-off hitter (Who generally take a couple so they can see what the pitcher has to offer) and then build their entire game on staying away from that spot.
I guess the upshot of all this great discussion Offset, is you have to think to pitch, strategy often takes a backseat to mechanics but both are equally important. Steven is so right, watching great pitchers work is a school many younger guys won't take the time and effort to attend....but will pay huge dividends if the time is taken.

[Steven_Ellis]

Funny that you should mention Perry, I just talked with him on Monday. There's no question that "perceived velocity" (he calls it "effective velocity") has an impact on the degree of difficulty that hitters have when facing pitchers. In my Ultimate Guide ebook, I talk about Randy Johnson throwing 95 mph -- but because he's so tall, he's actually releasing the baseball 3 feet closer (after his stride) than a 95 mph Pedro Martinez fastball, who's shorter and has a shorter stride. Taking movement and arm slots out of the equation, hitters would actually have less time to react to a 95 pitch from Randy than they would a 95 mph pitch from Pedro. It's a lot like throwing 95 from a little league mound and 95 from a big league mound. Although the gun reads 95, the hitter has much less time facing a pitcher throwing 95 from the LL mound. So all 95 mph fastballs are not equal.

That said, I really wouldn't get too caught up in the "science" behind it. It won't actually help you on the mound, imho, it's just interesting to know.

[OffSet]

when i watch games i have a bunch of strikezones i print out and mark where each pitch is, color coded for type of pitch and marked with 1,2,3,4 etc for order of pitches thrown

its just hard to look at after cause theres some that the pitcher has missed his spot so ur not sure if its part of the strategy or not

i saw halladay pitch last night to pena of the rays - cutter in on the hands, swing and miss, cutter in on hands, ball 1, 2 seamer started off the plate in and ended on the inside corner for strike 2, 2seamer in the same place but in more, fouled off, then curveball downt he pipe and totally froze him