Screwball

First off if im not thinking about it, how would i stop and go aye! i supinated my wrist. That wont happen, cause thats what I naturally do, how can you say that you guarantee ill open a door that way. You’ve never seen me in your life, yet you can guarantee that. Well im going to inform you that your guarantee is no good. The only way ill open a door and supinate, is if thats the only way the door will open.

Sorry for the cross post, but I don’t want this to be missed.

Here’s a video of Phil Hughes from a start last year…

Check out the second pitch (which the announcers labelled a change-up but I can’t confirm due to no radar gun). Looks like a either a screwball or a screw-change like Capuano’s (circle change thrown with pronation so it moves like a screwball). Great pitch for a RHP to throw against a lefty since it moves down and away.

Mike Marshall developed his screwball for the same reason; so that he’d had the equivalent of a slider to use against lefties (it can be dangerous to throw a slider against lefties since some guys love balls down and in).

[quote=“Chris O’Leary”]Check out the second pitch (which the announcers labelled a change-up but I can’t confirm due to no radar gun). Looks like a either a screwball or a screw-change like Capuano’s (circle change thrown with pronation so it moves like a screwball). Great pitch for a RHP to throw against a lefty since it moves down and away.

Mike Marshall developed his screwball for the same reason; so that he’d had the equivalent of a slider to use against lefties (it can be dangerous to throw a slider against lefties since some guys love balls down and in).[/quote]

The second pitch looks like a pronated change. Definitively is not a screwgie. And Marshall’s screwball is not the reverse-moving equivalent of a slider. The screwball moves opposite of the curve with much more dramatic downward break than the second pitch in the clip. The inverse of a slider is the sinker Marshall teaches.

While it isnt a true screwball, it is a nice pitch. What grip did he use, circle grip or did he choke the ball back into his hand with a modified two seam grip. Or something else. Ive never thought of pronating on anything other that a screwball and some inside leaking fastballs. I think i wanna startr throwing a pronated change-up. Good find

For me, it depends in the door. Which side of the door the knob is on and how close the knob is to a well.

But I generally pronate.[/quote]

For me, it depends on the location of the knob in relation to the door frame and the height, tangential to the plane of the angle of rotation, in addition to the shape of the knob and the direction of approach. I have diagrams if your interested…

I’m very surprised that you left out wind speed and shear. Thanks for the laugh.

Do you suppose there’s a reason you supinate to screw in a screw? It is a more natural motion. Doesn’t apply to pitching anymore than turning a doorknob does and that’s why using the doorknob analogy to try and say that pronating is more natural than supinating was a bad choice. A lot of little kids tend to supinate while throwing. They learn to pronate.

These are good points, but you have to remember that everyone is different.
Its more natural for me to pronate. All my long distance throws, from outfield, tend to move in, because i pronate my wrist naturally. Our center feilder’s throws tend to move in the direction of a curve, and his natural tendency is to supinate. It depends on the person, but niether is harmful if done correctly.

elodics,
Actually the supination while throwing is more likely to be dangerous. I wasn’t arguing that point. I just didn’t like the analogy that was used.

I agree.

And you pronate to unscrew a screw. Both motions are are natural, thats why human beings can supinate and pronate. However, am I to understand that the act of supination, harmless under normal use, can be damaging when done too forcefully? This seems like a more logical conclusion than that supination is somehow “unnatural”.

At the risk of perpetuating a somewhat silly discussion…

Yes, supination under “normal” use is normally safe while supination while pitching can absolutely be dangerous. The reason it is dangerous when pitching is two-fold.

First, supinating the hand/wrist/forearm causes the forearm to rotate the opposite direction that the uper arm rotates. This isn’t so bad when the arm is bent. However, when pitching, the arm doesn’t remain bent - it extends. The joint in the middle (i.e. the elbow) takes a beating when the upper arm goes through internal rotation while the forearm supinates.

Second, as I mentioned in an earlier reply, the arm will pronate after release. Supinating before release introduces an abrupt change of direction from a position of supination to a position of pronation. This abrupt change of direction is also hard on the elbow.

Now, under “normal” use, the forearm and upper arm don’t rotate opposite directions and there is no abrupt change of direction. Whether turning a door knob or screwing a screw, all parts of the arm work in the same direction.

Yes.

When done while throwing, it tends to focus the load on the UCL (rather than letting the bones of the arm take up some of the load).

In the worst case, it can cause the bones of the elbow to slam together, leading to the formation of bone chips in the elbow joint.