Ristar post


#1

Ok 1st part is workout.

My view on workout is you need to train fast to throw fast. Meaning do weight training but really focus on sprints and plyometrics. Tuff Cuff is a good book but I don’t like the two legged machine exercises so I do lunges on different planes for them. Beside that i have the same view as every one else on this site.

PART 2

Pitching is a speed/power sport not an strength sport.

If it was a strength sport then why can small pitchers throw fast. You need strength but not to much just a nice base to build explosiveness off of.

Also pitching has to deal with moving the body fast and rotating the body fast to get fast arm speed if you gain to much strength and muscle then that is not possible. Thats why tim lincecum, Tim Hudson and Roy Oswalt with Dice-k throw so hard.

PART 3

Mechanics

My view is gain momentum towards home as son as you lift the foot up. While moving fast and in control like justin verlander or roy oswalt.
The faster you can go linear the more power you can produce rotationally up to the arm. With out a fast movement you realy to much on the arm to produce the power and not enough of the body.

So move fast in control and do it with your own style.

PART 4

Weigthed baseballs

If you want to throw hard then THink Throw harder. All the weighted baseballs do is say wow this regular baseball is light I feel like I Now can throw harder. So you try to throw harder then before and the MPH goes up. Why do you need to think something is light to throw hard just throw harder. Weighted baseballs trick the mind in thinking the regular baseball is lighter and that makes you change your thinking of how to throw the ball hard.

All the weighted balls are good for is tricking the brain into getting you to throw harder. When you can just say to your self I’m going to throw this ball hard. Also the effect of the weighted baseball goes away after about 15 pitches like that helps LOL.

PART 5
Long Toss

Something to be done in off-season for conditioning. Not to be done in-season when you need to work on pitching mechanics from a mound. Off-season it’s ok but in-season work off a mound to get the location of your pitches and off-speed stuff down.

I want you all to tell me what you do not like of my views and your view on it in detail.

Thank you Ristar


#2

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#3

Well now some weight lifting is good? I thought only yesterday you said it is not effective and a waste of time.

Also can you please stop with you whole think fast, then all the sudden you will add 10 mph. If you are throwing to your bodily maximum or very close to it then this won’t help with more than a mph or 2. You have said before if you try to throw too hard you will leave the ball up and it will be flat–I agree. If you are maxing out at 75 YOU CAN"T JUST THINK YOUR WAY UP TO 95. Its just not gonna happen.

Mental approach is important but it won’t just create MPH out of no where.

You are slowly making your way over to the light side :slight_smile: (away from Darth Mills) but you keep on contradicting what you said previously.


#4

I’m not againest weight lifting that much BUT exercises on meachines and bench presses and Shoulder presses and incline presses and decline press and leg press leg extension leg curl exercises like that I’M 100% againest because they are two legged or 2 armed

I rather see funsctional lunges and plyometrics for the upper body. Somethign that gets you off 2 legs because when do you see a pitcher stay on two legs? Not alot so you need to work on balance and multi planer movement. Rather then the exercises that are machines and single movement where in pitching you throw down a mound and push off with one leg.

NOW the going fast while being under control will get you to gain momentum as soon as you lift your leg and if you do this under control then you will gain MPH. Even roger and DM will say that is true.

Slow and control will get you no where at all because where is the power comeing from if you go slow? You will just end up using the arm even more then when you go fast and explosive sideways then turn as fast as you can and turn the stored energy from the linear motion to the rotational.

Mental approach

You guy’s are over blowing what I said I didn’t say every one will increase MPH by the mental part. But I did and if you at the moment don’t have any training the mental side then thinking like I did might make something click in the brain and then you MIGHT find your self throwing harder.

Something clicked in my brain with the mental aspect of throwing hard and thinking I could do it and then go out and throw harder.


#5

[quote=“RIstar”]NOW the going fast while being under control will get you to gain momentum as soon as you lift your leg and if you do this under control then you will gain MPH. Even roger and DM will say that is true. [/quote]Well, that’s not quite what I’ve been saying. Roger can speak for himself, but I believe he’ll agree. What I’ve been saying is that gaining momentum CAN result in a gain in MPH, but ONLY IF this energy is effectively and efficiently transferred. Gaining momentum isn’t a sufficient condition for mph increases. There are many variables that need to be addressed.


#6

YES but tempo is important if all the others are ok.

Do you agree with me if you go faster in control its better then slow and control?


#7

[quote=“RIstar”]Do you agree with me if you go faster in control its better then slow and control?[/quote]Yes and no. Again, it depends on many factors being addressed. For example, let’s say you move fast into landing and you’re in total control while you do that BUT your shoulders opened early, along with your hips. That would not result in effective transfer of that energy up the chain. Another example would be where there’s a pause at landing before things move on. The energy again would not be transferred effectively.

So, you may get benefit out of faster and in control IF everything else has been addressed. If other important things aren’t there, then there’s no guarantee of success.


#8

I agree 100% for thoughs who do move fast they need to make it all flow and stay closed. But thats the same thing for someone struggling with slow mechanics.

That’s why I tell people to move fast because there is more power in fast then slow as long as you work at it. I think everyone moves at different speeds but if a slow speed is what your at just try and go a little quicker it doesn’t have to be a crazy speed just more then most of the people on this site go.

Tanner is a great example for speed in the delivery he goes pretty quick in control and does a great job. You want to have a fast motion as long as you can keep closed and smooth.

MY WHOLE POINT IS BASED OFF IF YOU ARE GOING SLOW WHERE DOES THE POWER COME FROM?


#9

[quote]PART 2

Pitching is a speed/power sport not an strength sport.

If it was a strength sport then why can small pitchers throw fast. You need strength but not to much just a nice base to build explosiveness off of.

Also pitching has to deal with moving the body fast and rotating the body fast to get fast arm speed if you gain to much strength and muscle then that is not possible. Thats why tim lincecum, Tim Hudson and Roy Oswalt with Dice-k throw so hard.
[/quote]
I should just have a form response that I cut and paste every time he says this…


#10

In general, I agree with dm59. You can’t isolate one part of the delivery and expect velocity to increase just because you do that one part perfectly. It’s possible if you were already doing eveything else perfectly and that one part was your only issue. But there’s no guarantee. The pitching delivery is a packaged deal - you have to put it all together with proper mechanics and proper timing to ensure efficient energy transfer up the kinetic chain. Even then, velocity is not unlimited. At some point, even if you do everything perfectly, you will reach a genetic limit as to how fast you can throw. We strive to optimize mechanics so that we can hopefully reach our genetic maximum velocity.


#11

amen to that KC!


#12

Kc what is wrong with what I had to say?

Explain what kind of sport pitching is? Explain your view so everyone can see.

Roger Yes I know that my point is have a good tempo and have good timing and you will gain more velocity out of going slow with good timing.


#13

In physics: power= force*velocity. So u need a good combination of speed AND strength which is the same thing as force


#14

further explain why baseball is a strength sport?

Do you really need strength in pitching?

The answer I think is No because look at tim lincecum and roy oswalt and dice-k and all the small pitchers that are not strong but still throw hard. if it’s all about strength how do they do it.

THey do it because mechanics which are far more important then bench pressing 200 pounds.

Pitching is about how you can rotate the arm fast. You can’t do that with slow training only fast training with a little functional weight training. Baseball is slow to adapt to the reality that pitching isn’t about strength anymore and speed is the key.

EVERYONE TELL ME WHY PITCHING IS A STRENGTH SPORT? KC chime in


#15

Just because those guys are small, they are still pretty strong, just because it is not your philosophy, you cannot discount strength training, and whether or not you can speak for those pitchers is questionable. So, all in all, just because you don’t do it, many, if not most pitchers do and it works for them.


#16

wait you called dice-k weak. are you serious? he once pitched a 17 inning game and threw over 250 pitches. when he long tosses, it ranges out to over 300 feet. since he’s weak, i guess his long toss would be around 800-900 feet if he was strong, right RIstar?


#17

You just said my whole point they are strong to a point and then after that it’s about speed training.

I beat if roger clemens could move as fast as he could when he was 20 he would be throwing 95 but now he can’t. He is stronger but can’t move as fast. And look the stronger and slower he got the slower his MPH became.

You need strength to a point then speed training. It’s simple pitching is about linear force turned into rotational force the best way to throw hard is to be quick with the linear force so then you can turn it into rotational power.

So what training would be for fast linear movement?


#18

Roger Clemens lost velocity because he is in his mid 40’s, its a miracle he’s still in the league.

And to address that strong to a point then speed comment, no one thinks that you should just weight train until you look like arnold schwartzeneger, you build strength, as well as other areas, you need a balance.


#19

yes but about 8 years ago he lost MPH because he got to big and trainined for to much strength. Over the last 10 years He has become to slow and not as fast as the Young roger clemens that was not big.


#20

As i just said, i agree that over-lifting can hinder velocity, but you cannot use an isolated example to make a generalization about pitchers in general.