Respect for players on steroids

I know that at least 90% of you are going to disagree with me but I feel that you have to respect a guy who is willing to potentially risk everything for his own betterment. What is cheating? Wanting to get as much of an advantage on your opponent as possible? I sure know that I want as much of an advantage on my opponent as possible, I am just afraid of the consequences of taking steroids… the dangerous effects on your body if you abuse them, the chance of getting caught and losing eligibility, the negative opinion people have of you, etc.

The guys that take that extra step of taking steroids are making a big decision, they are essentially saying “I want this enough to risk a lot”. I want to be good very badly also but I would not go to that extreme. It is the same thing as a stock broker putting a lot of their money on a certain fund based on an insider tip, it could end up paying off big time or it could end up backfiring even bigger. Who is willing to take that risk? Not me, but I do not think people who take these risks knowing the chance that they are taking should be ostracized by their community. I want a guy on my team that cares enough about the game and their own skills to do whatever it takes to improve them. Steroids are not a free pass to becoming better, you still need to bust your hump in the weight room and on practice field, but it gives you the opportunity to see some real changes in your game.

It may sound like I am advocating steroids, and to the younger readers I am truly not. There are many dangerous effects of steroids, in my opinion more than would ever make it a real option for me. All I am saying is that I have played with and against “juiced” players and believe me they were not always the best ones on the field, but I almost admire their drive to becoming one. How bad do you want to be better than the next guy? For me not enough to risk my body, my social life, and my health. For some desperate few, maybe it is worth the risk for them. I disagree with their choices, but respect where it is coming from.

I don’t respect them or disrespect them for using steroids. It’s not a bad or a good thing, in my opinion.

It is simple economics. If there is an edge to be gained - however small, however illegaly - when the prize is so great, the edge will be used.

It is simply reality. Everyone passing judgement should accept this first.

I respect someone who wants to work harder to get better and we’re starting to find out thats what steroids allowed players to do.

I don’t really call it cheating or performance enhancing because the uniforms players use today are more advanced and allow players to perform at a higher level than they did in the 50’s is that considered cheating? The bats the players use today are better than they were, is that cheating? The players in the 50’s and 60’s didn’t use video to analyze their swing isn’t that performance enhancing? The game has changed so much it’s not right to compare it to baseball 50 or 60 years ago, it’s just not the same.

steven how popular was steroid use when you were in the minors? did you ever consider taking a performing enhancing supplement to recover faster?

My input to this would be if all these professional guys knew it wasn’t wrong to use steroids - why did they keep denying they were using them? Why didn’t they just come clean & say I am hitting or pitching better because I am juicing up - not because I am working out harder. That would allow all the other players to start juicing if they wanted to. Guys that juiced were selfish and greedy. I know that is harsh but that is how I see things.

I know it is just a game - but it is a shame that we overlook this and rationalize it away by saying large sums of money are involved or they did it for the good of the team? So, we understand you cheated because large sums of money were involved and winning is everything - 2 good reasons to cheat - not a problem.

To say your honored that someone juices for the good of the team - is silly. This guy is telling his teammates that he doesn’t have much faith in them because he has to cheat to help the team win.

BTW - did anyone read the article in last week’s Sport Illustrated about Frank Thomas and Tom Glavine - good article - it was about them no juicing it up. No asterisks by their names when they go into the HOF - they still have their integrity - what did McGwire, Clemens, Bonds, and all the rest of the guys that juiced it up lose?

Prevalent. But that was back in 2001-2004. I think things have changed a bit since the consequences have gotten harsher.

[quote=“ZW#17”]I respect someone who wants to work harder to get better and we’re starting to find out thats what steroids allowed players to do.

I don’t really call it cheating or performance enhancing because the uniforms players use today are more advanced and allow players to perform at a higher level than they did in the 50’s is that considered cheating? The bats the players use today are better than they were, is that cheating? The players in the 50’s and 60’s didn’t use video to analyze their swing isn’t that performance enhancing? The game has changed so much it’s not right to compare it to baseball 50 or 60 years ago, it’s just not the same.[/quote]

Last I checked video taping yourself or wearing an MLB approved uniform or using an MLB approved bat is not illegal. Using steroids without a doctors prescription is (at least since 1990 when they were listed as a Schedule III controlled substance). I do get your point that there have been a lot of “performance enhancements” to the game over the years - but you can’t lump the illegal/immoral in with the sanctioned.

[quote=“kidmullen”]My input to this would be if all these professional guys knew it wasn’t wrong to use steroids - why did they keep denying they were using them? Why didn’t they just come clean & say I am hitting or pitching better because I am juicing up - not because I am working out harder. That would allow all the other players to start juicing if they wanted to. Guys that juiced were selfish and greedy. I know that is harsh but that is how I see things.
[/quote]

This makes me wonder how much experience you have around guys on steroids or the like. You do not take steroids if you do not intend on “working out harder”. Steroids are a way to make your harder workouts pay off more than they regularly would. Why would they not come out and say it? Because of all of the social pressure to stay “clean”.
I read an excerpt from “Sixty Feet Six Inches” today which for those of you who don’t know is a book by Bob Gibson and Reggie Jackson. In one part Gibson was talking about players who threw spitballs and knowingly trapped a ball in the outfield and claimed that it was a catch, trying to sneak a free out. He said that he did not have any problems with these guys doing this, it was just them trying to get every edge they possibly could. Not to twist Gibson’s words around, but I feel that taking steroids is very similar. Do what it takes to be better than the next guy. There is a level of risk that goes along with anything that gives such a big reward. If you are willing to risk it, the best of luck to you.

[quote=“qcbaseball”]
This makes me wonder how much experience you have around guys on steroids or the like. You do not take steroids if you do not intend on “working out harder”. Steroids are a way to make your harder workouts pay off more than they regularly would. Why would they not come out and say it? Because of all of the social pressure to stay “clean”.
I read an excerpt from “Sixty Feet Six Inches” today which for those of you who don’t know is a book by Bob Gibson and Reggie Jackson. In one part Gibson was talking about players who threw spitballs and knowingly trapped a ball in the outfield and claimed that it was a catch, trying to sneak a free out. He said that he did not have any problems with these guys doing this, it was just them trying to get every edge they possibly could. Not to twist Gibson’s words around, but I feel that taking steroids is very similar. Do what it takes to be better than the next guy. There is a level of risk that goes along with anything that gives such a big reward. If you are willing to risk it, the best of luck to you.[/quote]

I think you are way off base here. If a guy is going to cheat on the baseball field - he is going to cheat on other things in life. I hope I don’t have to deal with him when he is cheating. I hope he isn’t trying to steal something from me when he is cheating. McGwire, Bonds, and all the rest stole something from all the other players they played with and against - whether it was the winning run or a shortened career - they sc****d somebody to benefit themselves. The little picadello (a vocab word) sins you mention are just part of the game and they occur in the context of the game - they don’t ruin careers and cause records to be broken.

Sure take the risk - reap the reward - but don’t lie about it when you are asked whether you cheated or not. Admit it - have some character.

In high school and American Legion, we’d round off second base (and not even come close to touching it!) if it were a 1 or 2 man umpire crew.

[quote=“ZW#17”]I respect someone who wants to work harder to get better and we’re starting to find out thats what steroids allowed players to do.

I don’t really call it cheating or performance enhancing because the uniforms players use today are more advanced and allow players to perform at a higher level than they did in the 50’s is that considered cheating? The bats the players use today are better than they were, is that cheating? The players in the 50’s and 60’s didn’t use video to analyze their swing isn’t that performance enhancing? The game has changed so much it’s not right to compare it to baseball 50 or 60 years ago, it’s just not the same.[/quote]

On top of that let’s remember the negro leagues, was it not an edge for players to not allow some of the games greatest players into the same league as them, to not let them compete? The likes of Josh Gibson, Satchel Paige, Cool Papa Bell and many others never got a chance to play in the majors.
Within the topic of steroids, I don’t care, do 'em if you think you can get away with it but like someone mentioned earlier, don’t lie, that’s where I just lose it is when people try to lie when the fact, is they did it and we all already know it, hehem Clemens, Bonds.

Edit: Correction, Satchel did play in the majors but not in his prime when many people believe he could have been the best pitcher in history.

If you aren’t cheating, you aren’t trying.

true stuff my man, my old pitching coach used 2 say the same exact thing

my problem is guys using steroids as a shortcut to get from A to C without putting in the effort to get better naturally. It not like, these guys reach their genetic potential strength and recovery wise and use steroids to push them past that, these guys (maybe this is too huge of a generalization) are using roids to bypass a lot of the gains they can and should be making naturally.

There’s just an aspect of physical and intellectual laziness that gets me. And a feeling that these guys are (and sure, not all of them) jumping into something when they may think it is their only option, rather than putting in an intellectual effort to try to figure out alternative ways to get better.

I just think the human body is naturally capable of so much more than guys think…and whats a few years spent getting freaky the natural way when compared to a few months drugging up and having to live with the consequences (moral, though physical too, possibly) of having shortcutted your way up the ladder.

i’m sure it doesn’t bother a lot of these guys as much as it would me. For me though, I’m interested in finding ways to reach ones maximum genetic potential. Then, maybe, my outlook on steroids would be a bit different. Chances are though, the guys that are juicing up have not even begun to approach what they are capable of. That’s what bugs me. I hate seeing untapped potential bypassed out of ignorance and/or intellectual laziness

Might I point out something here…
Look at the lists, all the mlb pitchers (This is a pitching site right?), each and every single one of them were in the midst of injury recovery. So they were using it to stay in not get there.
It’s our own fault that our children believe that they can set aside hard work, dedication and a burning desire and take “something” to get them there.
QC, I guess you can put me in that 90% you mentioned…you are wrong.
It’s one thing to use your own physical wiles to “game” or cheat the system…spit balls and rounding bases is so much different than using an illegal chemical, injected into your body to make your body “different”.
Now personally…I have a very deep hatred of roiders, no sympathy, they have cheated guys who played it straight, out of a shot. On a personal level, my son faced unreal, and I mean to the point of encouraging suicide because he refused to use roids (See he has this thing called talent and a 90+ mph heater) when he was sick with mono…if I had it my way I’d be tracking down those losers and having a private “discussion”…those a-holes would think roid rage :twisted: .
Guys, be brave, stand up and don’t let peer pressure force you down a bad road, realize that only 300 or so get to actually play at the major league level, it takes being solid and true…not some dark path where you’re buying drugs…think about it…if you do make it…just by the far outside chance…they test for it in the bigs so you’ve cheated yourself, not to mention the physical effects it has on your body.

Lanky Lefty, jdfromfla: :clapping:

No one in baseball was left untouched by the steroid-cheating scandal. From the people who knew but looked away for their own personal interests (owners, management, sportswriters, players) to the people who used and/or pushed steroids for their own personal interest (players, “trainers”) to the players who stayed clean and competed against juicers on an un-level playing field, to the fans who unknowingly (for the most part) paid to watch steroid-fueled baseball instead of baseball…everybody was affected.

The common mythology of athletes using anabolic steroids only for healing purposes is pure horse-s__t. Anabolic steroids are testosterone mimetics and, among other things, they are very, very effective at stimulating the development of new muscle mass.

Among the apparent side-effects of steroids: Pathological lying, public humiliation, and asterisks on records.

Who cares if tainted A-Rod eventually breaks tainted Barry Bonds’ all-time homerun record? If he does, there will be quite a few people who think that A-Rod’s chemist must have been more talented than Bonds’ chemist.

There is a pharmacological difference between steroids and HGH but, still…which part of “Human Growth Hormone” is hard to understand?

Thank you for the encouragement La I do have to disagree on the healing part;

as you read down this list with reference to the Mitchell Comissions’ report page, you’ll see that the vast majority of pitchers (Except Paul Byrd who was using supposedly because of a pituary tumor…though it was prescribed by a dentist :? ) were either recovering from injury or like the Rocket coming off of a season in which he threw a huge amount of innings. Guys like Valdez and Pettite were flat done if they didn’t “do” something. Interesting in the comments on Kevin Brown that the GM knew it, purposely left it unmentioned and at the same time left no doubt as to what he was referring.
I swear if I was a bona fide prospect during that era, I’d find me the very best shyster lawyer a buck could buy and we’d have us the mother of all classs action suits. I personally feel like the real culprits aren’t even being looked at…MLB, Agents, The media…they should pay…they got rich off of these guys and had ready made patsys when this all came out…AND they left a legacy in our colleges and high schools that will take generations to clear out…scum just a bunch of scum.

Define the word " RESPECT", and you have all the answers you need - the one that matters most of all - yours.

Coach B.

What’s ironic to me is that those pitchers who I knew/saw take steroids in pro ball were the hardest working guys I’ve ever been around. They had the work ethic, skills, raw talent, size, etc., but they somehow along the way justified their use of steroids in their minds, and never looked back. So it’s not that taking steroids is a lazy way out … actually, it was quite the opposite.

btw, anyone know if taking steroids now in my life, at 31, would help me type faster? I’d really like to do that … :slight_smile: