Preventing early shoulder rotation?

I have read that you can put a small weight in the glove to make pitchers more aware of pulling the glove side too early? Any suggestions?

How about another way to stop early rotation? I have seen videos where having more of a bent front elbow can stop early shoulder rotation. My son leads with a straight glove.

The most common and cheap weights to a glove, that I’ve seen, is by using fishing line weights. These line weights, one or more, would be instered into the fingers of the glove and pushed all the way down to the end of the finger slot. Some pitchers only stuff them into the thumb, while others used a different approach.

The reasons for using them is a personal choice along with the many reasons.

Coach B.

I teach getting to an equal and opposite position with the glove arm and maintaining that until as close to front foot plant as possible. If it feels like the glove arm has to maintain this position artificially long, get your butt moving faster to get into foot plant sooner.

Early shoulder rotation often results from doing something else first - like shifting posture or pulling/dropping/flying open with the glove. Don’t do those things and you’re on your way. Maintaining equal and opposite up to foot plant means you’ve avoided the glove issues.

Thanks for the replies coach Baker and Roger. You are correct Roger, my son has always had a bad habit of pulling the glove early. I found it hard to train a 11 y.o. how to stop this and early shoulder rotation. Leading with his glove arm bent has made a huge difference. Found a knee drill video on youtube from the Georgia Pitching coach. Big improvement in the spin of the ball, speed and accuracy. No longer finishing off to the side.

[quote=“Roger”]I teach getting to an equal and opposite position with the glove arm and maintaining that until as close to front foot plant as possible. If it feels like the glove arm has to maintain this position artificially long, get your butt moving faster to get into foot plant sooner.

Early shoulder rotation often results from doing something else first - like shifting posture or pulling/dropping/flying open with the glove. Don’t do those things and you’re on your way. Maintaining equal and opposite up to foot plant means you’ve avoided the glove issues.[/quote]

Very logical. One point is to focus on what “to do” rather then what “not to do.” To me this is the importance of a pitcher (or anyone) knowing his mechanics, how to think through his mechanics, and understanding why he is doing what he is doing. Then when flaws occur they will be able to more efficiently address them (such as early shoulder rotation). Tom House discusses the “Feet to Fingertip” theory. When the player notices a flaw, he should be able to check all the things he should be doing. He’ll find the flaw and get to work fixing it. I suggest some slow motion work. A speed at which the brain can absorb the proper movement, then increase to full speed.

Oh so true…
NCCY, a couple of those slow movement drills that helps a whole bunch is “step-behinds” and “toe taps”, they assist the kid to understand in slow mo, where he is and when. To control the motion and help get some fundamental form, into the movement…remember, until he is actually “taught” his delivery, he is interpreting what he see’s…which may not translate into reality.

Interesting…

I tend to side with Roger on this one.

I’m on the other side of the coin with the concept of “what not to do”. I think it’s just as important to know “what not to do” In order to increase awareness I think you have to be able to associate a “feel” with right and wrong, proper timing vs improper timing. The tricky part becomes a way to measure or provide instant feedback between “right vs wrong” If not, its subjective and opinionated. As humans, we tend to see what we want to see and our players become victims of a cookie cutting approach.

How do you know it’s right if you don’t know it’s wrong?

Skip Bertman told me "teach a kid to throw a ball before he learns to throw a strike, he has to know the difference between what feels “right” and what feels “wrong”. I think the same applies to the rest of the development process.

If I told you the stove was hot, you would tell others it was hot. But until you reach over and touch the hot stove, only then will you know what “Hot” really feels like. Once you’ve established and introduced that feel to the body, it will begin to make changes to give you the best opportunity to reach your goal.

A big part of the development process is not eliminating failure but limiting the amount of times you fail (Paul Nyman). Introduce what not to do and I am willing to bet you increase an entire new heightened sense of awareness.

I think you in a situation like early shoulder rotation, the player would have to understand and be able to “feel” and “see” what’t the effect of doing it this way vs. that way. Allow him to establish what’s right or wrong, give him something to associate the difference between the two versus a coach telling him what “he thinks.”

Provide him with feedback and establish “HIS” cues, not ours.

Just my .02

Deep thoughts, indeed, Mr. Tank. :slight_smile: If I fly open too soon and nobody saw it - did it really happen?

Seriously though, I think your point has merit. Although, I would argue that as we learn what “right” is we, by default, already know what “wrong” is - otherwise we would have been doing it right all along. Or is that wrong? I’m so confused…

[quote=“oc2viking”]Deep thoughts, indeed, Mr. Tank. :slight_smile: If I fly open too soon and nobody saw it - did it really happen?

Seriously though, I think your point has merit. Although, I would argue that as we learn what “right” is we, by default, already know what “wrong” is - otherwise we would have been doing it right all along. Or is that wrong? I’m so confused…[/quote]

The brain just happens to absorb positives better than negatives when it comes to teaching it a new purposeful habit. For example: “I am eating this diet” rather than “I am not eating that.” Not eating the bad items will not necessarily make me healthy. Of course we will be aware of what we are not doing or should not do. But it’s a matter of the focus being on the positive; what I am achieving vs what I am avoiding. I am doing this, this, this, and this. Thinking about what not to do does not necessarily result in the desired action. It could lead to, or make room for another no-no. Purposeful concentration on what “to do” will lead to achieving that desired action/result more often.

Hahaha…Darn Iphones and my inability to type correctly using them.

I see what you mean.

My idea on development is that you have to create awareness, feel has to be part of the process. If you can create a system that allows immediate feedback from both visual and KA (kinesthetic awareness) the development process will speed up.

“Ok…don’t “do” the inverted W”, has been a term thrown out there (By some nameless guy and following) for years. My problem is I see nothing meaningful in the admonition…“Don’t have head violence”…is another…would you teach the “feel” of head violence before or after you correct the player (Several college coaches that I know, will dq a prospect who displays it over a more fine tuned mech)?
I get KA as a premise but tend toward keeping things on the positive…less clutter for the prospect to consider.

As to “with”…I’m always “with” Roger 8) and I see excellent discussion all over this thread…it’s a good-un… ironically I think all of the points have merit…just slightly differing perspectives…thus further convincing me that there really are many ways to train up a pitcher :wink:

[quote=“jdfromfla”]“Ok…don’t “do” the inverted W”, has been a term thrown out there (By some nameless guy and following) for years. My problem is I see nothing meaningful in the admonition…“Don’t have head violence”…is another…would you teach the “feel” of head violence before or after you correct the player (Several college coaches that I know, will dq a prospect who displays it over a more fine tuned mech)?
I get KA as a premise but tend toward keeping things on the positive…less clutter for the prospect to consider.

As to “with”…I’m always “with” Roger 8) and I see excellent discussion all over this thread…it’s a good-un… ironically I think all of the points have merit…just slightly differing perspectives…thus further convincing me that there really are many ways to train up a pitcher :wink:[/quote]

Head violence, yes, I would have them do the towel drill :wink:

My point is that you have to allow the player to make the adjustments by promoting feel. If a player violently moves his head, that’s a tough change because that’s where the sense of “balance” starts. Most kids have a tough time.

So, you have to find a means to measure and promote the head being still. What is the cause/effect of head violence? Isolate the problem, measure what your’re trying to acheive and allow the player to establish his cues and association with a “quiet” head.

By a coach saying you’re head moves too much, watch this on video. That’s only part of the fix. How does the player associate or change the head positioning? Video alone? Coaching? I don’t think so, although both will help. However, those are external.

How can you promote the change internally? Isn’t that where change takes place more effectively? His feel would be to keep the head still and learn what it feels like versus what he’s already doing. (violent movement of the head) How does he learn the difference?