We posted a couple of practice slow motion videos in the past.
We really appreciated the advice the board provided. We made some adjustments based upon your comments and would like to post 2 more videos for your opinions, thoughts, insight.
Any input from you, good or bad, is very appreciated…
Sorry about the distance from the camera as video taken from stands.
To recap: 12yo, 110lbs, 5’8"
BTW we were playing this past weekend 13U Baseball Expo Cocoa Beach. Teams from FL, NY, GA and Puerto Rico. Great experience! Finished 3-1
Would it be helpful if I got closer videos?
No thoughts at all fellas? Was hoping to gain some of your valued input as we have a bullpen session tonight when we could work on things…
I watch lots of the earlier video and he looks great. Awesome. Real great. Good work. Somebody gave us this drill to work on and it look like it might help you all. Please wait for the more knowledgeable folks to speak up first. It has to do with leading with hip. Other person have told us foot and it’s the same thing. I prefer hip but foot has to act simultaneously.
He’s doing a lot of the stuff we’re currently working on very Well. Keep up the good work.
Closer videos would be good for me to see more detail.
I will try to get closer videos Roger. Thanks for the tips Harebone. Last night we worked on 1st base (quick step) and 2nd base (quick step spin) pick off moves. We also worked on having him upon glove tuck keep the glove closer to the armpit after ball release (you’ll notice in video the glove sometimes ends up on his thigh).
I watched the video you provided and I’m not sure (maybe someone can give some insight) it would work with his pitching style/mechanics as he really does not lead with the left hip/back pocket.
He also kind of leans back to load when he throws. Is this right? I think it is kind of an odd pitching style actually compared to other pitchers I’ve watched on this forum. Maybe I’m wrong? (That’s why I’m here:)
To me it seems he’s more of a lift leg up and then back down…then lead from more of an upright position. Hopefully you understand what I am trying to say. Not sure if his mechanics is a good or bad thing, it just is was it is currently. Do you think we should change it?
I agree. Stick with what’s working and take baby steps to improve. I’m with u it looks a little different. I think there something to be said about individual style and success. But at the same time there are certain to
THings every successful pitcher does alike and I believe in that also. Post a better video and let hear what roger has to say. I think your headed in the right direction though. Following. Thanks
After doing some research as I was a bit concerned with my son’s “leaning back” pitching mechanics. It seems there is a name to it: Shoulder Tilt.
I have read both good and bad things about it…
What is the forum’s general thoughts on shoulder tilt? Should we work to correct it, or let it be?
I just looked it over again. To me I see lots of good mechanics. It seems like with all the tilt and all he has lots of velocity potential to harness from early forward leaning and pushing motion. Versus the delayed tilt back style. But he is successful as it is.
He’s got a lot going for him.
I’ve got two small suggestions.
- Yes, lead with hip, but the one thing that sometimes is forgotten in the Hersheiser drill… making sure there is some flex or bend in the knee, it’s not standing straight up and falling, you need to have some athletic bend in the rear leg knee to provide drive and extension.
- Depending on his posture, he may need to release a bit more out front. take a still of his release point and draw a line straight from his heal, through his butt, and head and that should be his release point… to check, draw back from his release point through his but and does it go through his heal?
Bad pic and bad drawing, so can’t say this is 100% but I encourage you to check because it seemed he had a pretty high release point.
It’s not always like coaches show you to release “way out here” (which is often an exaggeration to make a point) it depends on your position and bend in your back at release. but for him I think getting just a bit more out front will get him more power.
Thanks dfboiler. This is an issue we can’t seem to correct. The high release point is something we have noticed and are trying to or work on but just can’t seem to get it. He does have a long stride, but could this have anything to do with the early release? Maybe a balance issue? When I tell him to stride long…he sometimes says he feels like he’s going to fall over.
Are there any cues or tips can I give him to release more out front…other then just me saying “release the ball out here”?
One thing someone told me was to have him visualize that he’s throwing the ball through a window about 6 feet in front of him…
Release point is something you have to start from the ground up, if his early mechanics don’t get him there it is harder. Start with working on him leading with the hip and gaining ground. He probably has problems with the longer stride because he is still too tall (straight up and down). Compare this video of Clemens. Notice when he lifts his knee he is inside his back knee already beginning a positive move towards home with his hip. (The mechanics of pitching are so like those of hitting)
The thing about balance point is it’s really about balance and not falling forward towards third or backward toward first…not home and second…you shouldn’t come to a stop and have to restart the motion. That often creates the problem.
Now don’t over do it with tons of changes at once…start with the stuff above and if it works for him it may put him in the right position for his release point…
If not these cues helped my son…
After foot strike and rotation he should think about bringing his chest to where he is throwing, think middle of chest to target… see this in the video…then he can think releasing out front with good wrist action. Get to the flat back, parallel to ground.
Also the windup is smooth and controlled. Don’t create speed by a fast windup or giant push off(extend don’t “jump”)…when he gets to foot plant and his arm is up and cocked, from that point is where he speeds his arm up to throw hard…this should help from that high release point because he won’t be trying to “hump” the ball up and over too early in windup to create speed. ( make sense, hard to explain)
Drill: have him go into windup then freeze at foot strike and in power position… then throw working on what I described above for cues
Thank you for the tips and advice. We’ll start working on it and post results/video. Thanks Again!
#1 yes leading toward your target with the hip is good but do not try to force it . By forcing it subsequently the back leg will
immediately collapse, making it difficult to get the back leg “triple effect”- the extension sequence from ankle, knee to external hip rotation. When he comes out of his knee lift he should drift toward home plate allowing the back leg to stay tall until he is out in front of the rubber 6" inches… then began his down and out sequence followed by hand separation… That way his back leg will create a “forward-drive momentum” for acceleration throughout the stride. As for the shoulder-tilt, it is only ineffective if he is tilting back while his hips are over the rubber but if his hips are moving forward before he tilts then the momentum will effectively catapult his external shoulder rotation at foot-strike.
Wow. Great explanation Les. I see and understand exactly what you are saying…we will begin working on it…Thanks!!!
This is why I like the Hershiser drill. It lets you get a sense of being comfortable in the falling motion. It’s a trust issue and hard to feel comfortable with. Being relax moving towards target all while both legs are still finishing last motion. I call it initiation.
He is 12 and I’m guessing his season about to really get going. Baby steps now. He’s a great pitcher as is. In the offseason he needs to look at the kenetic force of pitching because I think he’s hurling it primarily with his arms and shoulders right now. Don’t get him 2 messed up. Unless he has discomfort.
Thanks Harebone for the insight and tips.
Well, we have been working away from an Up Down & Out motion, to move of a Lead with the Hip. It seems to be working well for him as velocity has increased and location is better. Now 13yo, 5’11". 125lbs.
One more thing. We have been using a King of the Hill and this has really helped him be able to “feel” what it’s like to drive using the back leg…
You may need to crank the tension on that King of the hill up a bit, cause (and it’s hard to tell force in video) I’m not seeing leg drive. What leads me to say this is that when his front foot is opening and open, his hips aren’t, they are coming around with his shoulders after foot plant and there is no separation. So what I am seeing is no drive to get the hips opening. I think now his forward momentum is pulling his drive leg off the rubber. the other thing is there is not extension to force that hip through, and his drive knee is pulling up under him, so instead of driving the trunk forward against the front leg, he’s going up and over the front leg. Trust me these are hard concepts to teach… I am struggling with teaching them to my son as well and they have at this point almost carbon copy mechanics.
Really try and get him to delay that front leg, it has to be passive and not reach forward, that way the drive leg can push off and extend as the front foot opens and catches him, the front leg should not break to far past his hip until the drive (or as Les says extension starts). you have to ride that drive leg out till it’s time to drive which is when you can’t hold that flex in your leg any longer and have to drive or lose the force its stored… and I really think he needs longer stride so he pitches against the front leg and not so up and over it since it’s so vertical.