Pitching a Power/Speed Sport not a Strength sport


#1

[b]Pitching Not a Strength Sport but Speed/Power sport

Pitching is all about the MOMENTUM you get towards home plate. The more momentum that you can gain the harder one will throw. [/b]

Momentum- In physics is the property or tendency of a moving object to continue moving. For an object moving in a line, the momentum is the mass of the object multiplied by its velocity (linear momentum); thus, a slowly moving, very massive body and a rapidly moving, light body can have the same momentum. (See Newton’s laws of motion

So with pitching the faster you can go the more momentum you can get. So a small pitcher needs to go as faster then a big pitcher. But if a big pitcher speeds it up a lot more then they will gain the same effect even though they would be slowed down because of there Mass.

[b]American Heritage Dictionary

POWER [/b]
Physics the rate at which work is done, expressed as the amount of work per unit time

The amount of time in pitching means the time you let the foot down from leg lift till you plant the foot. So to gain more power in baseball then you need to get to foot plant fast and then in return you will gain more power. With a long stride that you get to quick you will see a lot of power out of the delivery.

So in saying all of this then this means Pitching is a speed sport that needs general strength that can stabilize the body. You train for speed and speed in the delivery is power. So when thinking about how you train go with speed

[b]Power and Speed is the same thing in pitching.

Power is the amount of work per unit time
Speed in pitching is the time it takes till foot plant[/b]

As you can see they are both the same thing in pitching So when I say power or speed the mean the same as the other in pitching.


General Strength- strength to the point where you are able to stabilize the body effectively.

The difference between Strength and Power in pitching.

STRENGTH is inherent capacity to manifest energy, to endure, and to resist.
POWER Physics the rate at which work is done, expressed as the amount of work per unit time

In baseball weight lifting isn’t the best way to train muscles to manifest energy and the best way to do this is through Plyometric and Med ball exercises that on focus power which is speed of the body. You should have general stable strength and anything beside that isn’t going to help increase power/speed that is needed to create a delivery that is quick to foot plant.

[b]Yes Strength is going to help but past when your body is stable then all the added Strength isn’t going to be able to be put into the delivery. Only Speed training like sprints, Plyometrics and med ball is going to help performance past a stable body with general strength.

Baseball training needs to be fast and sports specific and needs more of this:
Med ball work
Plyometrics
Yoga that creates Stability in the whole body. [/b]

When is weight lifting good?

When you don’t have enough general strength and need to build a starting base. As soon as you are stable then the more weight training you do isn’t going to turn more velocity or better performance. After you have that General Strength then you need to work on the YOGA, Plyometrics, Med ball more while working more on skills in pitching such as pitching mechanics that deal with speeding up the body and getting into quick foot plant.

So in conclusion baseball is a Power/Speed sport and only needs general strength anything past that will not improve you pitching performance. And with the delivery you want to be quick to home plate so that you can increase power/speed which are the same thing when it comes down to pitching.

So next time you think of a way to increase performance think of theses things:

Is the training I’m doing have a lot of Plyometric/med ball exercises?
Am I fit to pitch meaning have a strong stable body. If not do I need to do a little of weight training to get a stable then work on plyo’s and med ball more?
Am I training for Speed/power rather then Strength if not what kind of training do I need to focus on?
Am I over training meaning that you are stable and still weight lifting which will not increase performance?
Am I doing some type of Yoga for baseball to become more stable and flexible?


#2

RIStar, your title in general contridicts itself because without strength, there can be no power. Why can you not accept that it is a balance between strength and speed that generate power?


#3

Did you read the part where i said that you need to have General Strength meaning that you are able to stablize the body.

What don't you get that antything after you are stable isn't going to help you?

Weight lifting is ok to get a base of strength or general strength but anything after that needs to have more plyometrics and med ball that will help your peformance.


#4

This is utterly laughable. You just used some dictionary quotes and then filled in the rest with your OPINION. Guess what, unless you have a PhD in exercise physiology, then I really dont care what your opinions are. Furthermore, your opinions are wrong.

I have probably stated the FACTS of strength more times than I care to recall, but you seem to be indifferent to reason. Like I have said, if you want to believe this, that is fine. When you start trying to convince others that you are right, well then the kid gloves are going to come off.
There is no factual evidence at all supplied here
Interpretation of the dictionary does not qualify as “research.” Having the definition of a word does not provide understanding, as you have obviously shown in your post. Moreover, you start using words without having any idea what they mean. What on earth is “general strength”? Do you mean General Physical Preparedness(GPP)? Somehow I doubt you even know what that means.

Med ball work is an aspect of strength training. Plyometrics is an aspect of strength training. BUT NEITHER ONE PROVIDES A COMPLETE STRENGTH PROGRAM.
Medicine ball work will build explosive strength and so will plyos. Nobody is doubting that, in fact I use both when I train. But you have to go beyond this singular aspect of strength, especially if you want to be successful. Maximal strength, speed strength, and strength endurance all need to be addressed in a program. You have not included any of these, either by choice or by ignorance. Frankly, I doubt you even know what these were.

At any rate, I hope that anyone reading this post is able to discriminate between the truth and scientific facts and the utter BS that you have posted.


#5

But the muscle you are putting on via the weight training is not just dead weight that inhibits the flexebility of your body, your building fast twitch muscle fibers that help move your body faster in addition to adding mass.


#6

RIStar, are you under the assumption that the man in your avatar, one of the greatest pitchers of all time, doesn’t use strength training? Roger Clemens weight training workouts are ledgendary, he has thighs the size of treetrunks.


#7

Pitching is all about momentum meaning
POWER AND SPEED WHICH IN PITCHING YOU GET YOUR POWER FROM SPEED OF THE DELIVERy AND MOMENTUM NOT STRENGTH.


#8

[quote=“RIstar”]Pitching is all about momentum meaning
POWER AND SPEED WHICH IN PITCHING YOU GET YOUR POWER FROM SPEED OF THE DELIVERy AND MOMENTUM NOT STRENGTH.[/quote]

No, now you are all messed up. Speed x Momentum does not equal Power, Speed x Mass equals momentum which translates to power. Why can you not accept this, that building lean muscle tissue from weight training will not only add to your overall mass, but increase the speed and explosiveness with which you go through your delivery. Its pure logic, I’m sorry. You are wrong, weight training is a part of pitching. End of Discussion.


#9

MOMENTUM= velocity thats what i meant

Momentum- In physics is the property or tendency of a moving object to continue moving. For an object moving in a line, the momentum is the mass of the object multiplied by its velocity (linear momentum); thus, a slowly moving, very massive body and a rapidly moving, light body can have the same momentum. (See Newton’s laws of motion

thus, a slowly moving, very massive body and a rapidly moving, light body can have the same momentum. (See Newton’s

Strength doesn’t matter because if it did pitchers that weren’t big and strong wouldn’t be able to throw 95+.

In pitching SPEED TO FOOT PLANT WILL INCREASE POWER WHICH WILL THEN INCREASE VELOCity no extra amount of strength will help. When pitching you don’t try to muscle up the ball that’s how you get injured.

I never said don’t weight train till you are stable but as soon as you are stable work on pitching specific things.

Baseball in general has been slow to adapt.


#10

OK, if you ignore logic, let me use math, which features NO GREY AREA.

A pitcher of 6’3" height, weighing 225 pounds go’s through his delivery. His stride creates energy which is multiplied as it travels up his body, increasing from the whip like action of his torso as it snaps around to realighn with his hips. This energy travels through his arm, which moves at 80mph on its own, combined with the fact that due to the explosive nature of his stride, he is already moving forward at 15mph. That adds up to the pure mechanics of a 95 mph fastball.

It is much easier to build muscle which enhances the energy created throughout the body, rather than create minimal energy within the body and hope that moving fast enough through your delivery to minimize this downfall.

I am not saying that it is impossible for a guy like Lincecum, purely through mechanics to create enough energy to throw the ball without any weight training. All I’m saying is that it is easier and more common to see a 6’2" 230 pound weight trained pitcher throwing 95, than it is a 5’10" 160 pound non-weight trained pitcher throwing 95, which alone signifies the significance of weight training.


#11

[quote=“RIstar”]MOMENTUM= velocity thats what i meant

Momentum- In physics is the property or tendency of a moving object to continue moving. For an object moving in a line, the momentum is the mass of the object multiplied by its velocity (linear momentum); thus, a slowly moving, very massive body and a rapidly moving, light body can have the same momentum. (See Newton’s laws of motion

thus, a slowly moving, very massive body and a rapidly moving, light body can have the same momentum. (See Newton’s

Strength doesn’t matter because if it did pitchers that weren’t big and strong wouldn’t be able to throw 95+.
In pitching SPEED TO FOOT PLANT WILL INCREASE POWER WHICH WILL THEN INCREASE VELOCity not strength. When pitching you don’t try to muscle up the ball that’s how you get injured.[/quote]

Again, I’m not saying its not possible for small guys to throw 95. But of all the 95mph throwers, how many do you think weight train opposed to those who don’t? I’d say about 98/100 will be lifters.


#12

The reason you don’t see the 5’10 mlb pitchers more is becasue scouts think they are not durable which is BS.
The reason everyone keeps weight training is because they are slow to adapt. At the MLB level more and more pitchers are doing other things beside weight lifting. Alot have changed over to this kind of training where they don’t weight lift all the time.

Also you see more 6-5 mlb pitchers throwing 95+ becauase coaches don’t teach there small pitchers how to use there mechanics right. Tim lincecums dad did do that. And im pretty sure Tim Lincecum doesn’t weight lift, his dad said he tranied him as a gymnist.


#13

Ok thats great RIStar, if in 20 years over 50% of pitchers are below 6 foot and most of them throw 95 without weight training, then I will personally call you up and say that I was absolutely dead wrong. But the fact is that right now I have the overwhelming statistics on my side. And until we begin seeing more Lincecums, Tim will be considered an anomonaly among scouts. A phenomenal anomonaly at that, but still an anomanaly. There is a reason scouts look down at pitchers below 6 foot, because in general they do not throw as hard. I agree they don’t use their bodies as well, and because they have similar mechanics to their 6’4" counterparts, but drastically less mass, they throw softer. They could throw harder in theory yes, and Tim may be proof of that theory. But until there are more of him, staying healthy and throwing 95, small hard throwers are going to be a happy mistake by god and not a progression in our understanding of mechanics and the conditioning of pitchers.


#14

So just because there are more pitchers 6’4 thats your defence thats a joke.
For a small player the ball is more flat and scouts wouldn’t even look at them even if they threw the same velocity as a guy 6’4. it’s not about preformance with scouts mostly it sometime is about size which makes no sence.

All im saying is strength doesn’t matter what matters is Momentum that you get from speed that creates power in the delivery.


#15

No, essentially you are trying to prove a point that at this point in time, cannot be justified.

As of right now in 2007, most power pitchers are 6’2 atleast, and 215 or over. And I’d be willing to bet that among a bunch of other things, they will attribute their weight training to a reason they throw hard. Nolan, Zumaya, Clemens, they all swear by it. So basically, there is 100’s of pitchers justifying my point, opposed to maybe 5 supporting yours. Does that mean I am right? Absolutely not, but the numbers say I am. And right now, thats all that matters.


#16

Ok we are both right but thats not the point.

Weight training past general strength isn’t going to help only good solid mechaincs which roger clemens, nolan ryan have.

And joel didn’t throw 100 till he starting doing yoga and tubing with allan jadger. And he has said thats what gave him the little boost in velocity in an interview he did a while back.


#17

If Lincecum trained as a gymnast than that blows your whole strength argument to hell. Gymnasts are some of the pound for pound strongest people you will meet. Just because they manipulate their bodyweight rather than a bar does not mean they do not strength train.


#18

And I’m arguing that for different types of mechanics, general strength varies, justifying the use of lifting. Not to mentiont that Clemens and Nolan got to their point of “General Strength” by weights in the first place. And btw, you are not going to fill out a 6’3" body with bodyweight exercises, sorry to tell you.


#19

Kc Gymnist by flexibility not strength.

Have you seen the back bend in the mechanics? All about Flexiblity and stablization with general strength.


#20

God this guy won’t quit lol, its 2 in the morning and i’m still arguing…