Pete Rose vs Steroid Users..what harms the game more?


#1

I don’t understand why pete rose is banned from baseball for betitng on his own team, and steroid users are suspended for 50 games. It seems to me guys like Bonds, Clemens disrespected the game on the same level as Rose.


#2

Gambling is illegal in baseball, per player/manager contracts. So if you’re under contract, in any way, with a team, you can’t bet on baseball.

Steroids were not when Pete Rose was around.

But it’s an interesting topic…


#3

Lets just get this straight. Pete Rose bet on games when he was managing an entire team. He could have swayed an entire teams performance, based on the bet.
Players who used steroids on the other hand, merely increased there performance during the game, and I hate to use this excuse but there were many people using steroids at the time. It was also perfectly legal. It is however, not legal for a manager to bet on his own games.


#4

Not to advocate steroids but they really saved baseball.

they helped reignite a passion for the game of baseball


#5

by taking steroids - your directly cheating yourself, your opponents($$$), baseballs prestigious records, the integrity of the game. Betting on your team does violate the player/manager contract ,however, it is another way of funneling your competitive edge without directly affecting performance in comparison to steroids. In taking steroids, your directly affecting on field performance. We can’t really quantify how much of an impact rose’s betting had on the game. We can however, be damn sure that it didn’t impact the game as much as steroids. It didn’t make injury prone right handed hitters and Bonds (once a base stealer) 70 and 73 home run champions like steroids.

If baseball needs steroids to “save” itself, what does that say about the sport? What dos that sya about the future of the sport, when testing catches every cheater? If your belief is true, then why not allow players to use roids?


#6

I mean it’s all relative really.

The Bonds issue isn’t totally factualized yet.

Plus how many pitchers nowadays can throw harder than before because of steroids.

I honestly think the best approach would be to allow HGH and the problem would be solved.


#7

if its all relative and if steroids saved the game, why hand out 50 game suspensions for those caught?

although you performance does enhance through steroid use, sticking a needle into your rear end takes away from natural hard work. Those getting better the right way are being cheated in a big big way.


#8

You do realize you don’t just become naturally better at baseball from taking steroids.

If you take steroids and do nothing you will get fat.

Steroids allow you, in short, to recover quicker from lifting and repair your muscles faster allowing you to lift harder and longer.

You can do the same thing really if youre constantly taking enough protein essentially… (almost but not quite)

you cant just take steroids and do nothing, thats not how it works.

Plus most the guys i know who are willing to take steroids are already the hardest working guys out there. Its about being able to push yourself harder LONGER and MORE FREQUENTLY


#9

Pete Rose did some bad things, he made mistakes and he’s been punished long enough. He deserves to be honored and put into the hall of fame he is one of the greatest players of all time.

Steroid users, they cheated, it’s over, many of them used substances before they were illegal. My insight on that is that everybody does something to get an edge over the competition and steroids just seem to be the most hyped. People forget about mental stimulants, when they talk about performance enhancing drugs, I did a research project for my english class and individually by itself a stimulant like ephedrine does more for your performance than steroids, steroids need to be coupled with extreme work ethic.

Anyways they’re both wrong, the people should be punished but give credit where it’s due and put Rose, Bonds, McGwire and Clemens in the hall.


#10

[quote=“Pustulio”]

Anyways they’re both wrong, the people should be punished but give credit where it’s due and put Rose, Bonds, McGwire and Clemens in the hall.[/quote]

Yes. This.


#11

Just wanted to comment on the effect of steroid aspect. Taking steroids and doing nothing wont make you fat. If you eat the same amount of calories you won’t get fat. An increased amount of testosterone from steroid use will make you leaner if anything. That testosterone will make you stronger as well. Granted the gains wouldn’t nearly be as large as if you did workout.

Also I think the most overlooked aspect of steroids in baseball is the use by pitchers. It allows them to recover quicker and in turn throw more, generating more arm strength. Yeah hitters are stronger but pitchers are also cheating. We just cant see the obvious signs of pitchers “juicing.”


#12

[quote=“GrizzlyStraight”]Just wanted to comment on the effect of steroid aspect. Taking steroids and doing nothing wont make you fat. If you eat the same amount of calories you won’t get fat. An increased amount of testosterone from steroid use will make you leaner if anything. That testosterone will make you stronger as well. Granted the gains wouldn’t nearly be as large as if you did workout.

Also I think the most overlooked aspect of steroids in baseball is the use by pitchers. It allows them to recover quicker and in turn throw more, generating more arm strength. Yeah hitters are stronger but pitchers are also cheating. We just cant see the obvious signs of pitchers “juicing.”[/quote]

Depends on the steroid you take. If you take anadrol and do nothing you will get fat(er)

If you take winstrol probably not the same thing. So in a sense you are right.

Pitchers I think are some of the easier guys to pick out on the juice. If someone goes from throwing 90 and all of a sudden after the age of 21 they get those 93,94,95’s to pop up then maybe you should be going hmmm


#13

what pitchers did that?


#14

I don’t think you can automatically assume if someones velocity increases they are using. Some pitchers may just peak at different times. Maybe they receive the final piece of instruction that makes everything click. I do know however from listening to guys that have been in various minor league systems that there is a lot of pressure very early to use performance enhancing drugs. Whether that involves steroids or just uppers.


#15

I saw an interview with Bob Gibson a little while back, and during the interview he was asked about steroids. Now we all know who Bob Gibson is and the kind of competitor he was (at least I hope we all do, and if we don’t, google is a great tool), and when he was asked about steroids, he straight up said that if someone came up to him back than and said, "hey take this once a day and it’ll give you an edge, and he if he saw the results that everyone else was getting, and it was legal to take in the game of baseball, he said he would have taken without even a thought. I’ve heard quite a few, back in the day greats, say very similar things as well. The point I’m making is that these guys were great because of their work ethic. Coupled in that work ethic, was a willingness to do whatever it takes to be the greatest baseball player they can possibly be, and a sense of never being satisfied with how good they were.

I constantly hear people say, why did Clemens (or Arod, or McGwire, or whoever else) take steroids, they were already such great players. The reason for this, in my opinion, is that these guys are of the same type as your Bob Gibsons and you Tom Seavers, yes they had talent, but they also had that undeniable willingness to do whatever it took to be great and a sense of always wanting to be better, and they were, for the most part, the hardest workers in the game.

The thing I find strange is that, Jason Giambi (I use him because he was a pretty liked guy) comes out and says that he took steroids, a drug, in an attempt to become a better player, and he has to go through a couple of years of hell; people throwing needles at him, yelling at him everywhere he goes; people just really giving him hell. Than, Josh Hamilton comes around, a guy who was blessed and given the baseball world to him on a golden platter, and he does drugs, but not to make him better in anyway, drugs that had the potential to destroy his ability to play the game. When Hamilton finally gets off of them and comes back to play the game, he is honored as if he were a hero because of the step he took in his life. There’s something wrong with this picture.

I’m not saying that I advocate steroid use, I’m not even saying that I feel the guys who used steroids should or should not be let off the hook, because I have mixed feelings. On one hand, I feel like they were only trying to be the best damn baseball players they could be, and they were willing to get there anyway they could, and some of them would have made it even if steroids hadn’t come into the picture.

In addition, its hard to single out the guys who were caught, because what about those who weren’t caught, like maybe Ricky Henderson who was pretty big, or maybe even Nolan Ryan, who was throwing over 90 mph and throwing no hitters at 45 years old on a Rangers team with Rafael Palmeiro, Pudge Rodriguez, Julio Franco, Jose Canseco and Juan Gonzalez. I’m not saying these guys did or didn’t use at some point, in fact that’s the point, who knows if they did. If they had, we sure don’t know. So if they had used, is it fair that they get to be hall of famers and not Clemens, Bonds and potentially Arod, merely because they got caught? On top of that, what if evidence comes out tomorrow that Kirby Puckett, or Goose Gossage, or Andre Dawson took steroids, do we take them out of the hall of fame?

Lastly, like was stated previously I believe, there are other proven performance enhancers out there that have potentially large impacts on performance as well. Do we ban anyone who’s ever used them as well? A good place to get an idea about steroids, there impact, and other performance enhancers is in a documentary called, Bigger, Faster, Stronger. It’s an excellent, unbiased documentary which will probably change your perception of steroids a bit.

On the other side of the argument though, maybe it’s unfair to the guys who more than likely didn’t take steroids, your Maddux’s and Glavine’s, or maybe guys who were naturally powerful like Frank Thomas, who got credit but may have gotten even more if it weren’t for the potential advantage their opponents got from steroids.

Now that’s my two cents, and again, I’m not saying I’m definitively for or against whether proven steroid users should be penalized, as that would just lead to arguments, and I’m just really too lazy to go back and forth lol, but I do think that when one guy uses drugs to try to improve himself and another uses drugs to destroy himself, and the latter is commended and the former is punished, there seems to be something wrong with that to me.


#16

I’m not sure that we can compare either of these. Both of them put in question the integrity of the game. That’s bad enough for me. People always say, “Steroids weren’t illegal by baseball standards”, but they ARE punishable by the United States of America and their law enforcement. It’s ILLEGAL to do steroids! Wakeup people!