Paul Nyman's latest post: Form vs Function


#1

Enjoy! Paul hammer home some very good points in his latest article, check it out!


#2

One would have to ask…just how was “pitching” taught before “science” interjected it’s head into it all.

The subject of “old saws” comes to my mind…those comments which have found their way to the ashcan of the lexicon…("stay back, “get out over it”, “over the top”), I believe what they were, were “cues” which the old time coaches may or may not have believed in but what it placed in the mind of the student/prospect/schmuck wit de glove was an “idea” which caused the pitcher to perform in the manner which the coach desired…they never had hi speed film…they had, as Zita points out regularly, their ways to communicate what they wanted accomplished.

I see the glee in the writings and discussions and on the face when one of the “new” style coaches find yet another of these old saw’s isn’t really true at all (Starting entire new…“SCIENCE BASED” philosophy’s and camps so…we constantly hear the strident call…“was a scientific study done”? and if not it has NO validity…BS!), I at least have to ask…is there really anything new? My personal opinion is no…and to agree with Paul on one issue in particular…many times, no instruction is way better than some of the instruction out there.


#3

Great stuff Lantz


#4

Wales,

Yeah I thought I did a great job posting the link to Paul’s article. Haha


#5

Note to Paul: It’s Warren Spahn, not Warren Spawn.

Gotta tame that mischievous spell-checker or you’ll make one of the greatest pitchers in history sound like the title of a cheap horror flick.

:lol:


#6

[quote=“Baseballthinktank.com”]Wales,

Yeah I thought I did a great job posting the link to Paul’s article. Haha[/quote]

Hey man you keep posting the link’s and people keep on reading’m.


#7

[quote]Note to Paul: It’s Warren Spahn, not Warren Spawn.

Gotta tame that mischievous spell-checker or you’ll make one of the greatest pitchers in history sound like the title of a cheap horror flick. [/quote]

I could say that I did it on purpose to see if anyone reads these articles… 8)

But the real truth is that engineers don’t know how to spell and spell checkers don’t know the difference between a spawning fish and a baseball player named Spahn… thanks for catching this.


#8

“I could say that I did it on purpose to see if anyone reads these articles…”

—That’s very funny. But, seriously, I thought the article was very well written and compelling in most ways but one: You don’t really need an introduction at this point for baseball people to know who you are–the interesting poser you set up to spice the essay, “should I go see Mazzone talk or should I see what’s-his-name instead”…well, you’d definitely go see Mazzone if you want to hear lots of charming, homespun tales about the glory days of the Braves’ pitching staff. I’ve read his book on pitching and that’s about the size of it…obviously the man had a gift for identifying highly talented guys from a talent-laden pool and also for allowing the talented guys on the Braves’ staff to do their thing, but in terms of teaching not-so-good guys how to get good…I haven’t seen any real evidence that Leo Mazzone can do that job, or even wants to do it. It seems to me that helping uber-trained professionals to get through their inevitable rough patches is probably more often psychology and and TLC than mechanics…frankly, given the choice I’d come to listen to your talk, Paul, but that might not be a very good representation of the general population. Maybe most people would rather hear warm and fuzzy personal stories from the days of Smoltz and Glavin and so on, but…deep down I would hope that people realize those stories are more entertaining than informative.


#9

Paul,

Any chance the Setpro reaction time hitting trainers/computers will be available again? I’d love to utilize it with my team.

If not, anything similar out there?

Great article, as usual.


#10

Memo to laflippin: That question is a no-brainer. I would arrange to have one of those talks taped, preferably videotaped, while I go to the other one, and I can watch the video later. I’m surprised that nobody has thought of this particular solution—or were they in the bathroom or something when the brains were distributed? It certainly would be most informative to have both discussions side by side and compare notes as to where Mssrs. Nyman and Mazzone agreed and where they disagreed or came to different conclusions. If I wanted to hear stories I would listen to Ed Lopat, who was a veritable repository of same—the thing was, when he told me a story it was to illustrate a point: such as how he bamboozled, hoodwinked, conned, flimflammed and generally stifled the Cleveland Indians (his favorite patsies) to an unrecognizable pulp, in the process telling me a few things about pitching sequences and how to use them.
I’m looking forward to the next installment, as Paul indicated would be forthcoming. :slight_smile:


#11

memo to Zita:

re: “or were they in the bathroom or something when the brains were distributed? It certainly would be most informative to have both discussions side by side and compare notes as to where Mssrs. Nyman and Mazzone agreed and where they disagreed or came to different conclusions. If I wanted to hear stories…”

-------So, you’re an outstanding musician, right Zita? Do you normally allow your stage performances to be videotaped for distribution without your permission? (Hint: Whether you personally care or not, the promoters and/or venues you play for most likely do have policies forbidding unauthorized recordings of your performances. Most reputable programs for expert speakers would routinely forbid people from doing this as well…especially for any kind of distribution beyond personal use.

So, practically speaking, unless someone is really motivated to team up with others, make illegal videotapes, and share them…your no-brainer idea is not very practical.

All of that aside, anyone with reasonable fore-knowledge of Mazzone and Nyman could readily decide which seminar they would rather attend…their style and content are as different as baroque and ska.