Opinions on this delivery. Young 13yr old

[quote=“baseballbum”]Once again thanks to everyone and I value everyone’s opinion. Here is what I wanted to share.

  1. This past 4 months we have worked on arm action. I did have an issue with this about 2 years ago when he appeared to be pushing the ball. I think we got that done and he does have a fluid motion.

  2. Before he was going straight to the plate. Chin to the plate and chest to the glove a la the school of Tom House. After reviewing many video clips we noticed he may be throwing across his body.

  3. Also, after reviewing many clips of some major leaguers, most hard throwers tend to fall off to the 1st base side. In the current clip I posted he really was rearing back to throw the ball hard. Now although in the clip he looks like he is falling off a cliff but the majority of the time he takes a step.

  4. The never ending battle of perfect mechanics is something he is trying to accomplish. Heck why would I post a clip for the whole world to see and share. I value many opinions and having 25 additional eyes and ears is great to have.

  5. The Towel Drill- say what you want but it really helps lengthen the stride. We did it a while back , then we ditched it, but it may make a comeback because looking at past photos he had a longer stride. We will try it again and see what we come up with. (OPinions on this one please).

:lol: The son has read all of the above clips. He wanted to say thanks to everyone .[/quote]

Dont want to sound anything but helpful but some word to the wise about increasing stride length if you so desire. Im also not saying this would be your approach, having the pitcher try to just increase his stride by saying “stride further” or someother “cue” that does not explain how to to do it efficiantly and with the most potential to build power will have no results unless they do it naturally. Striding further is not the real ANSWER its moreso the RESULT that you want by performing a function better. He needs to apply more force to achieve the result of a “further stride” in reality its better stated as “having the stride leg touch down further from the rubber”, you want this to happen but you also still want the lower to stay connected not with the upper but with itself. Fact is thats where many people go wrong not understanding the importance of the lower staying connected UNTIL you want the pelvis TO open. Simply concentrating on strideing out further probabaly acheives nothing or at least not everything it could. Understanding this is important in my opinion. Thats why for some probabaly most, just TRYING to stride further without understanding and than doing so but in a manner that does not enable the lower to stay connected actually can result in striding further out but not being able to rotate. Carrying good momentum into landing is KEY. At some point the front foot does land, the hips have already started to open before the foot plants. HOW MUCH momentum you carry into footplant is directly porportanate as to how well you will rotate the rest of the way which is directly porportunate [in this even a word?] as to how much energy makes it into your torso and so on and so on, its a chain. Only the part we are talking about is PERHAPS the most critical inso far as how much “JUICE” we start the chain with!

Back to what needs to be done. In order to get out further without upsetting his “posture” which is very very good as hes going out so dont mess with that. Bottom line if you want the kid to get further out he needs to apply more force into landing. He gets that by a more forceful “propulsion” if you will by the BALL of his PIVOT leg foot as he is ready to touchdown with his stride foot. His brain/body is highly aware when his stride foot is mere inches off the ground, HE KNOWS. At this time he should be TURNING his pivot leg foot and pushing himself into landing which will provide more momentum to rotate the hips/pelvis. Only my opinion than again many a hard throwing major legue pitchers do EXACTLY this.

My final comments:

(1) There is a difference between being squared up at release point and finishing squared up. You want to be squared up at release - not a the finish. Squaring up at the finish means you’ve started to decelerate at release and that’s undesirable. Being squared up at release means you’ve maintained posture and balance and had proper timing. The rotation of the shoulders and the throwing arm will naturally pull you to the glove side but not too much if you’ve maintained posture abd balance.

(2) The towel drill is not about striding as far as you can - it’s about optimizing your mechanics so that they buy you a nice, long stride. It is easy to do the drill incorrectly and so it should be supervised by someone who knows pitching mechanics. Tom house recommends a target distance of stride plus 5 heel-to-toe steps. BUT, if you cannot reach that distance using proper mechanics, then you need to shorten the distance so as not to entice the pitcher into lunging or other inappropriate mechanics. Chinmusic’s comment about stride being a RESULT is dead on.

(3) DM’s comments about pitching first and fielding second are excellent.

[quote=“chinmusic”]He needs to apply more force to achieve the result of a “further stride”[/quote]Interesting way to put it.

[quote=“chinmusic”]you also still want the lower to stay connected not with the upper but with itself. [/quote]Another interesting quote. Can you please elaborate on this?

[quote=“chinmusic”]HOW MUCH momentum you carry into footplant is directly porportanate as to how well you will rotate the rest of the way which is directly porportunate [is this even a word?][/quote]I believe it would be “proportional” or “proportionate”. :slight_smile:

Roger. Thank you. Another good discussion.

[quote=“dm59”][quote=“chinmusic”]He needs to apply more force to achieve the result of a “further stride”[/quote]Interesting way to put it.

[quote=“chinmusic”]you also still want the lower to stay connected not with the upper but with itself. [/quote]Another interesting quote. Can you please elaborate on this?

[quote=“chinmusic”]HOW MUCH momentum you carry into footplant is directly porportanate as to how well you will rotate the rest of the way which is directly porportunate [is this even a word?][/quote]I believe it would be “proportional” or “proportionate”. :slight_smile:

Roger. Thank you. Another good discussion.[/quote]

D.M. some will equate the longer stride as just trying to step out further. In order for the pelvis to rotate to its fullest the pitcher has to remain stacked to some extent the angle of the post leg has to remain constant, we have talked as to why this shoud be before as well as how this sets up the body for good rotation. Instead of stepping further with the stride leg the body moves as a whole or at the least the thinking should be that, the point is not to let the lower being to elongated to the point where it inhibits rotation, just creating more distance from foot to foot can casue lack of good rotation. Hard to convey. If you look at the clip as hes going out he is in good position, a good athletic stance so to speak he wants to keep this a constant too. the position remains the same but his body as a whole should make it further before footplant, the way this is done is to create more force/momentum INTO footplant. The planting of the stride leg will put the brakes on to some extent, it should which could also slow down or inhibit rotation especially if there is no much momentum or the pitcher is just to stretched out. The idea is to keep as much momentum going while this is occuring as possible or perhaps better put trying to lose the least amount as possible. The only way to make this happen is to apply more force into footplant, which in one way is done by the post leg foots action as explained. Again only my opinion, but in fact it also works the same way for the weight guys I work with in track. If they use the glide technique in the shot. If I try and get a kid to be able to further his glide across the circle I want the body to move as a whole, not just create more room from foot to foot, this may result in to much separation and not enough stack resulting in lack of good hip rotation. The same for a pitcher. In my opinion much is about how well you stay loaded I realize thats the goal for all. Many do not undrstand how this actually works Im not saying I got it all figured out either. I am saying this about pitching mechanics from a kinetic chain point of view, there is no other way. The result you get from specific action is directly inherent to those that preceeded or is it ceded? HA!. Which means how well you land and how well you transfer energy/power has significant input on the proceeding segmant in the chain. How well its utilized or not utilized has relevance for every proceeding moment until its over, not just the next. Again only my opinion.

chinmusic
As TV’s Frazier Crane would say “I’m listening”. You said:

[quote=“chinmusic”]In order for the pelvis to rotate to its fullest the pitcher has to remain stacked to some extent[/quote]What do you mean by that?

You then went on to say:

[quote=“chinmusic”]the angle of the post leg has to remain constant[/quote]Why is this? I don’t recall this being explained anywhere and I’ve heard it before but never really could wrap my pea brain around it.

DM59 wrote

[quote]Again, I didn’t mention anything about an off balance situation or falling off to first. Quoting something I did not say doesn’t negate what I did say[quote]

I was addressing Bum Jr. not your comments per say. Wasn’t in any way attempting to negate anything.
Bum Jr.‘s finish, in my opinion, at some point would/could improve his contol if his approach is more toward home than “falling of toward first”, which is what he’s doing in the clip. He may never find out, he may not need to, he may be the second coming of Jose Cantrres or El Duke’ with that high knee kick, my hopes are that he fully acheives the fruits of the gifts that he shows in this clip. Please understand that I believe the pitcher must be the pitcher and that nothing should “hamper” the delivery of said pitch.
Matt Clemment took a liner off his skull as he couldn’t react brcause he was body facing first (Went off to left field for a nice single, it did).
In my book anything that gives a pitcher an edge (Good pick-off move, excellent fielding ability, hides the ball well in delivery) i.e. gets him more and easy outs, makes him more apt to win more games and have longer more successful outings…Now is there anything wrong with that logic?
I really think you guys are getting a little thin skinned since ol Chin has whupped up on Chris like he did.

[quote=“dm59”]chinmusic
As TV’s Frazier Crane would say “I’m listening”. You said:

[quote=“chinmusic”]In order for the pelvis to rotate to its fullest the pitcher has to remain stacked to some extent[/quote]What do you mean by that?

You then went on to say:

D.M. Check you p.m.

[quote=“jdfromfla”]I was addressing Bum Jr. not your comments per say. Wasn’t in any way attempting to negate anything. [/quote]Your post of April 03 actually quoted me and then continued with a response. I naturally attributed that post as a response to what I said.

[quote=“jdfromfla”]Matt Clemment took a liner off his skull as he couldn’t react brcause he was body facing first (Went off to left field for a nice single, it did). In my book anything that gives a pitcher an edge (Good pick-off move, excellent fielding ability, hides the ball well in delivery) i.e. gets him more and easy outs, makes him more apt to win more games and have longer more successful outings…Now is there anything wrong with that logic?[/quote]Nothing wrong there. Now, let me clarify. I don’t advocate a totally defenseless method either. This pitching thing scares the **** out of me because of the liners coming back. My son’s on the mound out there. I do propose that he finishes his pitch but that the glove does not go behind the back, as Clemens does. I prefer glove to the chest (or chest to the glove) to increase the chances of protection. I think the worst position he could be in is square to the plate.

[quote=“jdfromfla”]I really think you guys are getting a little thin skinned since ol Chin has whupped up on Chris like he did.[/quote]Nah! Chin doesn’t scare me :lol: Seriously though, I’ve been on boards like this long enough to not let it get to me. Just go over to SETPRO or the old pitching-mechanics.org and you’ll see some venom spewing around. Brutal. This board’s been great with some minor exceptions.

As long as we attack the ideas put forward and not get personal, go for it. Hopefully, we all learn something, even if it’s only that there are different approaches that you should be exposed to, whether you agree with them or not.

Well then DM we only disagree on the facing issue…As I would rather (As it’s my boy out there also…Just a short story here…My oldest son was able to deflect a liner off with that presentation on the same week-end that a little leaguer in Tampa…lefty turned toward third, took one off of his chest cavity and stopped his heart…this was in the 80’s and can be “looked up”) my pitcher be in balance and looking at where the ball is.
I was hoping you didn’t live in some bizzaro world where everything is a strike out or something… :lol: