# On or in front

No, If you look directly below his right foot, it looks like the rubber is right there, whether or not it is, he (kelvinp) might be right. ( The rubber looks like it is lined up directly with his Adidas stripes.)

no chance.

still infront…

you can tell in lincecum’s photo
he didnt start off with his foot on the rubber
he pushed off with his toes

in the mlb the rubber is almost flat with the ground
so even if you do start off in front of it you still can push off of it

in the pic his toe is on the tip of the rubber

So what is your argument? His foot isn’t on the rubber, nor does he start with his foot on the rubber from the stretch.

from the stretch you dont put your foot on the rubber because you are trying to pick off a batter if he is too far off the bag

from the stretch most pitchers push off the rubber

from the stretch you dont have as much momentum as the windup so pushing off really doesn’t help so y do it

from the windup you have alot of momentum and to get that momentum going you push yourself forward

most people side step from the stretch so there is no push off

okay. Which I agree with. You said throwing off the mound increases velocity, now you contradict yourself.

haha…very true

Pitchers, like poets, are born not made.

You are really confused…

First, you don’t pick off the batter - you pick off the base runner. :roll: Second, from the stretch you put your foot in front of the rubber to start closer to home plate. It’s got nothing to do with picking of a runner.

That’s a pretty big generalization you’re making there. How do you know this is the case?

If you haven’t figured out how to generate momentum from the stretch without pushing off, then that’s something you need to work on. But, really, I think you have this backwards. If you can’t generate momentum in the stretch by other means, then wouldn’t it make sense to try to push off to generate some momentum? (if you could do that without messing up your timing).

Again, I think you have this backwards. If you’re generating adequate momentum from the wind-up, then there is no need to push off.

[quote]First, you don’t pick off the batter - you pick off the base runner. Second, from the stretch you put your foot in front of the rubber to start closer to home plate. It’s got nothing to do with picking of a runner.
[/quote]

you know what i meant
you are not really that closer to the plate
you cant pick off a runner with your foot on the rubber or it will be a bawk
the stretch is used to protect against stolen bases
if the stretch gets you closer to the plate then why use the windupthink about it

you can see that most mlb pitchers do - closers especially

[quote]If you haven’t figured out how to generate momentum from the stretch without pushing off, then that’s something you need to work on. But, really, I think you have this backwards. If you can’t generate momentum in the stretch by other means, then wouldn’t it make sense to try to push off to generate some momentum? (if you could do that without messing up your timing).
[/quote]

i didnt mean it like that
i mean that you dont get as much as you would if you were in th windup

im saying you push to get that momentum going forward towards the plate

[quote=“kelvinp”][quote]First, you don’t pick off the batter - you pick off the base runner. Second, from the stretch you put your foot in front of the rubber to start closer to home plate. It’s got nothing to do with picking of a runner.
[/quote]

you know what i meant
you are not really that closer to the plate[/quote]
It is generally accepted that moving your release point 12" closer to home plate is equivalent to throwing the ball 3mph faster in terms of batter reaction time. This is referred to as perceived velocity. Even if you only move 6" closer and only get a 1.5mph increase in perceived velocity, why wouldn’t you want that? It’s free - just start in front of the rubber.

No argument there. What’s your point?

The stretch doesn’t get you closer to the plate - starting in front of the rubber gets you closer than starting on top of the rubber. And, in the wind-up, you position your pivot foot in front of the rubber as you pivot into knee lift so the wind-up gets the same benefit.

you can see that most mlb pitchers do - closers especially[/quote]
I challenge you to prove that what you’re seeing is really a push. Studies have been done using high speed motion analysis and in-the-ground pressure plates and the conclusions are that there really isn’t a push.

[quote][quote]If you haven’t figured out how to generate momentum from the stretch without pushing off, then that’s something you need to work on. But, really, I think you have this backwards. If you can’t generate momentum in the stretch by other means, then wouldn’t it make sense to try to push off to generate some momentum? (if you could do that without messing up your timing).
[/quote]

i didnt mean it like that
i mean that you dont get as much as you would if you were in th windup[/quote]
That’s just a defficiency that needs to be worked on. It is possible to generate the same momentum from the stretch as from the wind-up. It may be more work but it is possible.

im saying you push to get that momentum going forward towards the plate[/quote]
When does this push occur? To me, momentum starts when the body starts forward. For pitchers who step back, it starts once they start foward after stepping back. There probably is a push by the stride foot after stepping back. But I thought we were talking about a push off the rubber which involves the pivot foot. I guess I’m confused about which foot you’re talking about and when this push is. And I’m not sure you’ve really thought this through.

look
either pushing off or starting in front will get you that extra kick in the velocity department

[quote]you cant pick off a runner with your foot on the rubber or it will be a bawk

[/quote]

you have to step off or have foot in front of the rubber

[quote]the stretch is used to protect against stolen bases

No argument there. What’s your point? [/quote]

your foot has to be in front of the rubber to pick off
your foot doesnt go on the rubber during the stretch position

you start in front of the rubber from the stretch

[quote]I challenge you to prove that what you’re seeing is really a push. Studies have been done using high speed motion analysis and in-the-ground pressure plates and the conclusions are that there really isn’t a push.
[/quote]

ok you try to stride and get velocity with you back leg stiff and not bent
when you bend your back leg you are pushing

what starts your body going forward after the leg lift

Can anybody ban him?

[quote]Can anybody ban him?

[/quote]

why

If you’re a righty you can throw directly to third as long as you are not committed to going home on the pitch. For lefties it’s first. You can lift your leg all the way up and then step directly to the base and make the throw without stepping off.

LOL
kelvin you are arguing with an NPA certified coach and you dont have any facts to support what you are saying… nor does it make sense.

when you pitch from the wind-up, yes your foot initially starts on the rubber. then you take your step back and place your foot sideways against the front of the rubber and continue on with your delivery. the fact that you start with your foot on the rubber during the windup does NOT mean that you pitch from on top of the rubber.

in the stretch yes your back leg bends. when your hips start forward it straightens out your back leg because it was bent, thus making it appear like the pitcher is pushing when in actuality hes not.

can you tell me what start your hips forward

when people have long strides both legs are extended
the back leg has to push to acheive this

i keep my foot on the edge of the rubber because i push off
i feel that when i put my foot infront of the rubber there is nothing to push off of

stand on your posting leg and raise the other up into your leg kick. stay there… now tilt your body left/right depending on which hand you are. you dont need to push to start your momentum going one way

[quote]i keep my foot on the edge of the rubber because i push off
i feel that when i put my foot infront of the rubber there is nothing to push off of[/quote]
everybody starts with their back legs’ outside part of the foot up against the rubber… against the side of the rubber closest to the plate… no one stands ON the rubber meaning on the TOP of the rubber nor do they pitch with no part of their foot in contact with the rubber

in fact, i believe its illegal to not be in contact with the rubber – could be wrong though