Offseason training


#1

Im not gonna throw for about 3 months .But i dont want to waste this time so if some1 can point me to a training schedule or anything else.That will help my pitching.(strength training or anything).


#2

You could try the Tuffcuff program, I found that it helped me tremendously the summer I did it. I think I went up about 6-7 MPH the summer I did it. I haven’t had the luxury to try the Tuffcuff pro yet, but that is something I wanna do in the future. I also found that weighted balls were excellent for me, but if you are not throwing then that is something you’d wanna avoid. You could also buy a J-Band and search up a j-band routine on the internet. Make sure you run a lot of sprints.


#3

where can i find this program?


#4

http://thecompletepitcher.com/order/ @jam


#5

I don’t mean to be too personal here, but, why the non-throwing for 3 months?


#6

Major League Baseball, and all orthopedic doctors, recommend that pitchers take time off from all throwing, usually 2 to 4 months each year depending on age, to assist arm recovery and health. Below are the “Pitch Smart” guidelines developed by MLB in conjunction with an Advisory Committee made up of Dr. James Andrews and MLB team physicians:

Ages 9 to 12: http://m.mlb.com/pitchsmart/pitching-guidelines-ages-9-to-12

Ages 13 to 14: http://m.mlb.com/pitchsmart/pitching-guidelines-ages-13-to-14/

Ages 15 to 18: http://m.mlb.com/pitchsmart/pitching-guidelines-ages-15-to-18

Advisory Committee: http://m.mlb.com/pitchsmart/advisory-committee/


#7

So, jam is not taking these months off from throwing because of injuries, strains, or other issues?


#8

Could very well be one of those reasons. I assumed it was for rest, as 3 months is a common rest period. Jam? :smiley:


#9

Here’s the thing with taking time off… the body is always in a constant state of adaptation. Meaning, it will respond and adapt to whatever stimulus is being placed on it. So by taking time off - tissue that needs to heal will heal - but tissue that doesn’t need to heal with atrophy or get weaker.

Taking 3 months off as a blanket statement isn’t always best practice.


#10

[quote=“drsosterer, post:9, topic:20442, full:true”]Here’s the thing with taking time off… the body is always in a constant state of adaptation. Meaning, it will respond and adapt to whatever stimulus is being placed on it. So by taking time off - tissue that needs to heal will heal - but tissue that doesn’t need to heal with atrophy or get weaker.

Taking 3 months off as a blanket statement isn’t always best practice.[/quote]

The following orthopedic doctors on the Advisory Committee for Major League Baseball’s Pitch Smart guidelines disagree with you. Give them a call and tell them to remove the recommendation to not throw for 3 months from their Pitch Smart guidelines.

Dr. James Andrews, American Sports Medicine Institute

Dr. Neal ElAttrache, Head Team Physician, Los Angeles Dodgers

Dr. Michael Ciccotti, Head Team Physician, Philadelphia Phillies

Dr. Christopher Ahmad, Head Team Physician, New York Yankees

Dr. Anthony Romeo, Team Physician, Chicago White Sox

Dr. Gary Green, Medical Director, Major League Baseball

Dr. Jan Fronek, Team Physician, San Diego Padres

Dr. Stephen Fealy, Orthopaedic Consultant, MLBPA

http://m.mlb.com/pitchsmart/advisory-committee/


#11

Thank you for re-iterating what orthopaedic surgeons are saying. Very educational and grown up.
Not throwing completely is a blanket statement to make sure that kids cannot fall victim to overuse. That absolutely does not mean that you NEED to take time off.

Injury is a balance between capacity and demand.

Capacity >>> Demand = no problems
Demand > Capacity = positive adaptation
Demand >>> Capacity = injury

Altering the amount of demand to zero, in the case of not throwing for three months, can create a maladaptation — players can lose the amount of tolerance to load or in other words lose Capacity.

Maybe you should read this article on what the predominant factor is in overuse injuries — what’s called a training load error OR a mismatch between how much we’re asking of an athlete in the short term versus how much capacity they have. Dr. Tim Gabbett has been studying this for years and applying it to the more progressive professional baseball teams. A few of those surgeons are actually co-authors of his papers.

So, like I said, taking 3 months off isn’t ALWAYS best practice.


#12

@drsosterer Very good points you raise & good article.


#13

The reason for my question …" why 3 months?"… is primarily due to the fact that you’re about 23, you live in Greece, as I understand it, and you’re just starting off with this sport, and you’re gong to be playing ball with a group of your friends.

So it would follow that your playing ball, from here on out, would be will recreational ball at best. Is this correct? What is recreational baseball? Recreational baseball is baseball for just the fun of it. Recreational baseball is not competitive baseball where you’ll be trying out for a team at the pitcher’s position and such. Is this your primary reason for wanting to get involve in a strength and training program for pitching?
.


#14

@drsosterer

Thank you for re-iterating what all those with a financial interest in year-round throwing say. Very educational and grown up of you to not disclose that you are a chiropractor, not a medical doctor, and that you run a website and program that benefits financially from year-round baseball activity. Also very educational and grown up of you to not disclose that you, in your own words, “succumbed to an injury that prevented me from throwing my entire senior year of high school”, and that you now “work as a strength and conditioning coach, pitching coach and a manual therapist”. Also very educational and grown up of you to not disclose another non-doctor on your website who says, “My playing career was plagued with injury, always interrupting development, decreasing my performance and ultimately ending my career”. Finally, very educational and grown up of you to not disclose that the “article” you cite is from your own website.

Nothing against chiropractors, but you guys don’t hold a candle to the top orthopedic surgeons in the world. The guys who have been studying pitcher injuries and performing Tommy John surgeries on pitchers for decades. The guys whose total Tommy John surgeries were 0% on teenagers in the 1990s, but 55% on teenagers today. The guys who unanimously advised Major League Baseball to develop the Pitch Smart guidelines which recommend 2 to 4 months off from all throwing each year depending on age, because they have seen in 20-year-olds the fruit of their year round throwing since they were kids: Tommy John. The guys who have no vested financial interest in pitchers taking time off from throwing each year. The guys who actually give advice for the benefit of the kids, not for the benefit of their pocketbook. I’ll take their advice.


#15

You have managed to side-step the point that I am making in favour of attempting to discredit the source of information.

Yes I am a chiropractor, meaning I spent 4 years getting a doctorate degree that includes significantly more musculoskeletal training than what a medical doctor receives. This was after I spent 4 years receiving an Ivy League education in neurobiology. Not a medical doctor, no. But I do consider myself informed on musculoskeletal issues. I do run a baseball development company that trains baseball players. We currently do not offer any service that runs year round. The other ‘non-doctor’ on my page is not me, so I am unsure what he has to do with the points that I made. I don’t need to cite that the article I posted was my own — obviously it’s an extension of my own thoughts in the previous post.

Let’s return to the point that I am making.

Your body adapts to load or stress. The volume and intensity of which will dictate your biological response. The idea that throwing year round is inherently dangerous is physiologically false. The research and guidelines that you are presenting were founded upon the idea that HIGH LOAD (high volume, high intensity, high frequency) were associated with increased overuse injury. Now of course, very high demand - too many throws, really high effort throws and no rest - relative to what the athlete can handle (capacity) will ultimately result in injury.

Demand >>> Capacity = injury

Subsequently, if you lower the amount of demand (lower volume of throwing, more rest, or intensity) relative to capacity, you are far less likely to succumb to injury. Isn’t that exactly what the MLB guidelines suggest? The top sports scientists in the world, not orthopedic surgeons but the people who actually study injury prevalence data, came out with a very important consensus statement on the topic in May. Asking too much relative to what a person can handle significantly increases the likelihood of injury. Moreover, moderate amount of consistent loading is protective of injury.

My point is quite simple. You can absolutely throw year round with low intensity, lots of rest, or lower volume. The demand is low relative to capacity. Moreover, the cessation of application of load or stress to a tissue or your CNS will lower the capacity of said systems. Your body adapts to load and stress.

If you want an example in another sport consider a marathon runner. Over the course of the off-season they (hopefully) gradually build up a very high capacity to handle lower extremity loading through training. Their tissues and nervous system get stronger and more capable of handling 26 miles. In season, the demand they are placing on their body may become more frequent OR higher in intensity relative to what their training entailed. Their tissues or CNS may begin the process of breakdown. One particular runner ends the season and isn’t hurt, but a considerable % of their peers succumbed to overuse injuries. This runner decides that they need time off at the end of the season from running with such high intensity and load. Would your advice then be that they shouldn’t light jog at all for 3-4 months? What about walking? Both of these activities load their lower extremity.

I am sorry for the length of this post. I am hopeful that you’re response addresses the points that I have brought up rather than discredit my assertions with ad hominem attacks.


#16

South_Paw, judging injuries based on the number of surgeries is a silly metric.
There were 0% heart transplants in the 1920s, it doesn’t mean heart disease didn’t exist. It meant that the surgery wasn’t possible then.
In the 1990s, it’s likely that TJ was cost prohibitive for most teens (and less proven with fewer surgeons). Now it’s fairly common. Most kids who needed TJ just quit in the 1990s. Like most baseball players who blew out their UCLs quit in the 1940s and 50s because the surgery didn’t exist then. Note Jobe saying Koufax would have had the surgery if it was around then: http://mlb.nbcsports.com/2012/07/14/dr-frank-jobe-it-could-have-been-sandy-koufax-surgery/

Moreover, attacks against a guy who spends his life studying this (and clearly is intelligent) should be really off-limits. Who’s saying that othropedic surgeons know how to stop TJ surgery? They’re not experts in Kinesiology or biomechanics, etc…they repair injuries, not necessarily are experts in preventing them (though honestly I’m sure most are really good–just countering your point). Also, they have financial interest in doing surgeries too, right? Who knows how much they’ve studied preventing them. Admittedly they’re very smart folks. But so is Dr. Osterer. 3 months is a rule of thumb that probably does fit most, but this issue is definitely NOT one size fits all nor do they have the magic answer with 3 months rest since pitchers are still getting injured at a high rate, despite adhering to both pitch counts and rest requirements. More debate and research is necessary.

Anyway, I find Dr. Osterer’s info very interesting–and adds to the discourse on the subject. Also see Dr. Buffi (who would argue that it’s about load and not about taking 3 months off…not all cases are equal. In fact, rest without corresponding increase in load after rest could lead to more injuries not less (due to atrophy of muscles protecting the UCL). He now works for the Dodgers, who have a very vested interest in stopping TJ/elbow injuries and keeping pitchers on the field.


https://news.northwestern.edu/stories/2015/04/muscles-matter-in-baseball-/

“Elbow injuries are a huge problem in baseball, from Little to Major leagues, and our study shows that muscles play a part,” Buffi said. “If you’re not accounting for muscles, even if you know the total elbow load on a pitcher, he could be at a really high risk or a really low risk of injury depending on how strong and capable his muscles are.”


#17

LOL. Always the same unqualified characters challenging what the highly qualified say about the dangers of year round throwing. Why don’t you geniuses call Dr. James Andrews and correct him? Here is his interview on the Major League Baseball website (start at 2:10): https://www.mlb.com/video/roundtable-dr-james-andrews/c-32815001?tid=7417714 Oops … I forgot … Dr. Andrews’ phone number is (205) 918-000. When you’re done correcting Dr. Andrews, send me a message and I’ll get you the phone numbers of all the MLB team orthopedic surgeons.


#19

@south_paw Just because you don’t agree doesn’t mean there’s not validity to another persons point of view. At one point in time everyone believed the earth was flat, turned out to be wrong. I’m not discounting your view or your sources but keep in mind you may be proven wrong (or right) at some point in the future. Same can be said about those who have a different opinion. No need to be disrespectful.


#20

One of many things that peaked my interest with this particular web site was that statement by Pitcher17.

With the exchanging of ideas, experiences and personalities, we all have a stake in these postings and subsequent responses. In particular … with the youngsters that visit this web site. Glancing through the outstanding format that’s presented, the various topics that are offered, and the insight and wisdom that collected right here - free of charge, benefits so many young players and their families. I always keep this in mind with posting and responding so as to project a responsible content. (my Mrs. will debate that)

Solid post Pitcher17, solid.


#21

Totally agree Pitcher17. Dr, Andrews is clearly smart and a talented surgeon. However, 3 months rest, while it is well intentioned and a nice rule of thumb (like 100 pitches in a game), certainly hasn’t proven to be a panacea, since players are still getting injured at the same rates or more.
Pitch counts and innings limits while also well-intentioned have similar shortcomings. See:


“By just putting blanket innings limits on pitchers or pitch counts, that’s not going to get you the results you’re looking for in terms of reducing the number of injuries,"

Looking beyond that, and understanding the complexity of the issue and the fact that one player may need 3 months or more off, while others need to work on strengthening their arm muscles/working on increasing load, will likely be the next step in the evolution of arm health. That’s what Dr Osterer and others are aiming for. Customized understanding of where a pitcher is and what workloads should be to maintain arm health. This too may fail, but I find it heartening that smart folks are trying to solve the problem. See also the Motus Sleeve and other devices that try to determine the actual forces on an individual’s elbow, rather than going by a one-size fits all approach.

Keeping an open mind and trying to study and innovate seems to be more important than shooting down a messenger or blindly accepting recommendations that haven’t been a cure-all.