Off season workout questions


#1

I’m going through The Pitching Manual to set up an off-season plan for my 10 y/o son. I’m a little confused abut how to coordinate the various components (Mechanics & Throwing/Flexibility/Bodywork, Joint Integrity, Core Stability/Body Weight Training/Conditioning).

2x or 3x refers to the number of times per week, correct? Sorry if that sounds like a stupid question. I want to make sure I don’t overwork the kid. :slight_smile: If it’s 2x or 3x per week, what is the best way to coordinate the various components? That is, do we do TP and DR on different days? Are there any components that shouldn’t be done on the same day?

Should he be doing something every day, or should we do 5 days on, 2 days off?

Finally, any suggestions for winter throwing in cold climates (Northeast)? I don’t think we’ll have access to an indoor facility.


#2

I would work on Mechanics & Throwing/Flexibility/Bodywork/Joint Integrity on one day,
and the next day work on Core Stability/Body Weight/Training/Conditioning.
So every other day, you will be working on the same thing.
You should contact someone who has experience in this.
By the way, what is TP and DR?


#3

TP–Throwing program

DR–Drill Reps


#4

lol that sounds so complicated. You know what they say “Simplicity is the art of sophistication”

This is what my off-season stuff looks like.

Monday-throw
Tues- Workout with a personal trainer for 10 minutes :wink:
Wed-nothing
Thurs-throw
Fri-throw
Sat-nothing
Sun-throw

I also do no stretching. I throw for around 30 min


#5

[quote=“TheUnDiscovered”]lol that sounds so complicated. You know what they say “Simplicity is the art of sophistication”

This is what my off-season stuff looks like.

Monday-throw
Tues- Workout with a personal trainer for 10 minutes :wink:
Wed-nothing
Thurs-throw
Fri-throw
Sat-nothing
Sun-throw

I also do no stretching. I throw for around 30 min[/quote]

Translated into simple English, Mechanics & Throwing/Flexibility/Bodywork, Joint Integrity, Core Stability/Body Weight Training/Conditioning is simply strength and agility.
It does sound like alot, though.
-TheUnDiscovered
Why don’t you stretch before or after throwing?
Do you warmup at all-other than throwing?


#6

He doesn’t believe in strength or power workouts transferring to release velocity, or really anything else. He doesn’t do his own research and is negative about pretty much everything on the site.


#7

He also hasn’t told everyone how all that nothing translates to his dominating success on the mound


#8

86-88 mph at 155 pounds and getting a 60% scholarship to a DII isn’t bad is it. lol


#9

Which DII is giving you a scholarship??? Is it athletic?
What is your current load? What I mean is how many innings have you gone?
It’s real nice to be cocky friend, do you think you are the first?
Let me just mention to you…you have never thrown what you are about to…if you aren’t prepared it will not work out for you…you may “think” you are some sort of exception…you ain’t homey…you are average and about to get chewed up by the hardest year a kid faces in college…Now I’m not trying to do anything but tell the truth. You likely won’t believe me or think somehow you’ve got it…baseball and college pitching will humble you…Lanky for example…was the winning pitcher for his HS in a state championship game…he’s now playing for U. Maryland…he’s had success…he’s prepared and studied…he has a chance because he knows…through long research, what he faces and has gone many extra miles to get there…he also knows he has many more to go…
You just keep “doing” all that nothing…cuz you know better…There is no pitcher currently in the bigs or that you can name ever who didn’t prepare…you will make a whole bunch of team mates happy…you will fall away quickly and they will get that scholly money…because you’ll find…they aren’t your buddies…they have dreams too and very likely will work much harder than nothing…you?..you’re just in the way.

LOL :lol:
If it was so easy they wouldn’t pay like they do smart fellow


#10

50% athletic, 10% academic


#11

Well congrats on that. I mean it.
You should be proud to acheive enough academic success to assist you in getting a higher education. What is the name of the school, I wasn’t aware that any DII was allowed to provide athletic scholarship funds? If you’re bringing that, my sophmore who sits lo 90’s might want a piece of that action…oh and has pitched very successfully in the toughest JUCO league in the nation…against nationally ranked teams…
Do you think the coach, who is in it for a paycheck…his families livilihood… is going to allow you to “do nothing”?..Scholly’s are 1 year contracts friend…no effort, no matter the “skill” means it won’t be renewed.


#12

[quote=“leftysdad”]I’m going through The Pitching Manual to set up an off-season plan for my 10 y/o son. I’m a little confused abut how to coordinate the various components (Mechanics & Throwing/Flexibility/Bodywork, Joint Integrity, Core Stability/Body Weight Training/Conditioning).

2x or 3x refers to the number of times per week, correct? Sorry if that sounds like a stupid question. I want to make sure I don’t overwork the kid. :slight_smile: If it’s 2x or 3x per week, what is the best way to coordinate the various components? That is, do we do TP and DR on different days? Are there any components that shouldn’t be done on the same day?

Should he be doing something every day, or should we do 5 days on, 2 days off?

Finally, any suggestions for winter throwing in cold climates (Northeast)? I don’t think we’ll have access to an indoor facility.[/quote]

The good news for us here in the North East is that it’s been super mild. Hope that continues. I generally threw outside when temps were above 32. Below, I threw at the high school gym, and we even got permission to throw at an indoor tennis facility during off hours.

2X and 3X is the amount per week. I’d actually only work out 3 times a week max with your 10 year old. The weights are very lightweight or body weight in nature, so going 3X per week is fine. You can perhaps throw 2-3 times per week on the other days.

The DR and TP was designed to be done on the same day, as most kids don’t have the same training time avail as older pitchers.


#13

[quote=“Steven Ellis”]

The good news for us here in the North East is that it’s been super mild. Hope that continues. I generally threw outside when temps were above 32. Below, I threw at the high school gym, and we even got permission to throw at an indoor tennis facility during off hours. [/quote]

I’m working on the owner of an empty office bldg for those cold and/or snowy days. :slight_smile:

[quote]2X and 3X is the amount per week. I’d actually only work out 3 times a week max with your 10 year old. The weights are very lightweight or body weight in nature, so going 3X per week is fine. You can perhaps throw 2-3 times per week on the other days.

The DR and TP was designed to be done on the same day, as most kids don’t have the same training time avail as older pitchers[/quote]

How does this look (for Month 1 on p. 33 of The Pitching Manual)?

Mon–DW/DR and TP/BW and RTC

Tue–DW/run 10 min./core 50 reps

Wed–DW/DR and TP/Body Weight Training

Thu–DW/BW and RTC

Fri–DW/DR and TP/run 10 min./core 50 reps

DW–dynamic warmup
DR–drill reps
TP–throwing program
BW–body work
RTC–rotator cuff program

I’m figuring 30-45 minutes/night, which leaves him plenty of time for homework and bugging his brother and sister.[/quote]


#14

[quote=“jdfromfla”]Which DII is giving you a scholarship??? Is it athletic?
What is your current load? What I mean is how many innings have you gone?
It’s real nice to be cocky friend, do you think you are the first?
Let me just mention to you…you have never thrown what you are about to…if you aren’t prepared it will not work out for you…you may “think” you are some sort of exception…you ain’t homey…you are average and about to get chewed up by the hardest year a kid faces in college…Now I’m not trying to do anything but tell the truth. You likely won’t believe me or think somehow you’ve got it…baseball and college pitching will humble you…Lanky for example…was the winning pitcher for his HS in a state championship game…he’s now playing for U. Maryland…he’s had success…he’s prepared and studied…he has a chance because he knows…through long research, what he faces and has gone many extra miles to get there…he also knows he has many more to go…
You just keep “doing” all that nothing…cuz you know better…There is no pitcher currently in the bigs or that you can name ever who didn’t prepare…you will make a whole bunch of team mates happy…you will fall away quickly and they will get that scholly money…because you’ll find…they aren’t your buddies…they have dreams too and very likely will work much harder than nothing…you?..you’re just in the way.

LOL :lol:
If it was so easy they wouldn’t pay like they do smart fellow[/quote]

From what I read above I can see that what you think I do is “nothing”…That is very comical since that is far from the truth. I do essentially what everyone else does in the most time efficient manner. There is a lot to learn from Nautilus, Arthur Jones, Doug McGuff, HIT, etc. One interesting thing Doug points out in his studies is the big difference between skill conditioning and physical conditioning and how they can’t be intertwined.

I’d also like to ask if you have ever done this style of conditioning? The concept is very hard to grasp but when the science is laid out in front of you such as McGuff’s book it is very practical and proven.


#15

Your quote was that you spent 10 minutes with a trainer once a week. You might just as well quit wasting your money.
I;m not trying to be comical, I’m telling you the truth.
I’m also sorry to be using this thread to discuss your approach

As to the nautalis work out…at 50 I have little use for that, but when I was a high school student/athlete I used nautalis equipment for more than 10 minutes once a week…I thought I lived there.


#16

As a young (age 6-13) pitcher’s body is not totally developed usually until he becomes a teenager,
should he be doing strength workouts or not?
I’d like to hear what people think about this.


#17

[quote=“CardsWin”]As a young (age 6-13) pitcher’s body is not totally developed usually until he becomes a teenager,
should he be doing strength workouts or not?
I’d like to hear what people think about this.[/quote]

That is a pretty big age range with a whole lot of changes going on. I wold say the younger the kid - the better it is to just get them off the couch and out from in front of the video games. General strength is probably the most important thing. I think the fitness community would say - make it fun - expose kids to as many different sports as possible in the younger age range. I don’t know what age I would start lifting at. I started at 15 but didn’t really do it seriously until this year (I am 17). Whenever I have questions about stuff like this I go to Eric Cressey’s site and try to find out what he has to say about it.


#18

[quote=“CardsWin”]As a young (age 6-13) pitcher’s body is not totally developed usually until he becomes a teenager,
should he be doing strength workouts or not?
I’d like to hear what people think about this.[/quote]

This was linked at Cressey’s site today. Thought it might interest you.

J Strength Cond Res. 2010 Nov 9. [Epub ahead of print]

Effects of a 4-Week Youth Baseball Conditioning Program on Throwing Velocity.
Escamilla RF, Fleisig GS, Yamashiro K, Mikla T, Dunning R, Paulos L, Andrews JR.

1Andrews-Paulos Research and Education Institute, Gulf Breeze, Florida; 2American Sports Medicine Institute, Birmingham, Alabama; and 3Results Physical Therapy and Training Center, Sacramento, California.

Abstract
Escamilla, RF, Fleisig, GS, Yamashiro, K, Mikla, T, Dunning, R, Paulos, L, and Andrews, JR. Effects of a 4-week youth baseball conditioning program on throwing velocity. J Strength Cond Res 24(12): 3247-3254, 2010-Effects of a 4-week youth baseball conditioning program on throwing velocity. This study examined the effects of a 4-week youth baseball conditioning program on maximum throwing velocity. Thirty-four youth baseball players (11-15 years of age) were randomly and equally divided into control and training groups. The training group performed 3 sessions (each 75 minutes) weekly for 4 weeks, which comprised a sport specific warm-up, resistance training with elastic tubing, a throwing program, and stretching. Throwing velocity was assessed initially and at the end of the 4-week conditioning program for both control and training groups. The level of significance used was p < 0.05. After the 4-week conditioning program, throwing velocity increased significantly (from 25.1 ± 2.8 to 26.1 ± 2.8 m·s) in the training group but did not significantly increase in the control group (from 24.2 ± 3.6 to 24.0 ± 3.9 m·s). These results demonstrate that the short-term 4-week baseball conditioning program was effective in increasing throwing velocity in youth baseball players. Increased throwing velocity may be helpful for pitchers (less time for hitters to swing) and position players (decreased time for a runner to advance to the next base).

PMID: 21068687 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]


#19

[quote=“jdfromfla”]Your quote was that you spent 10 minutes with a trainer once a week. You might just as well quit wasting your money.
I;m not trying to be comical, I’m telling you the truth.
I’m also sorry to be using this thread to discuss your approach

As to the nautalis work out…at 50 I have little use for that, but when I was a high school student/athlete I used nautalis equipment for more than 10 minutes once a week…I thought I lived there.[/quote]

So do you workout still?


#20

Most of pitching power and stamina comes from the legs,
therefore, a lot of exercises should be leg-based.