New age jargon for instruction?

Not sure where this observation/ question goes. I’ll start by saying, that I hope this does not offend anyone. I know most of the people I’m referring to are extremely intelligent, and have worked extremely hard at their craft to get where they are.
I have noticed on this site, and many other forms instructional videos, etc… There is a new trend in using highly technical and elaborate language when describing a technique, or conveying a thought. I am an “experienced” person, who works in an industry where I have to talk and work with highly educated, technical, people. I have found there are two types of these people.

  1. They will dazzle you with brilliance
  2. They will baffle you with BS
    It is hard for me to decipher between the two in the realm of pitching experts, because of the language barrier. I do like the new way people are instructing and thought that goes into it, but is there anyway to close the language gap without getting a doctorate?
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I sat in a meeting with a trainer who was explaining recurring problem(s) that he noticed during the first part of our season. Granted, he meant well and his intentions were spot on. His narrations, combined with pictures from a overhead projector were impressive - but - had every coach in the small, no air conditioned cinderblock room, in a deep sleep. In fact, what woke me up was sliding out of my chair and knocking two other guys out of their chair.
Embarrassed, I apologized and tried to recover myself by saying… “So basically, you don’t want our guys doing that,” Frankly, I had no idea of what I was talking about.
To this man’s credit, he realized he was talking to a group of coaches that had basically a third grade mentality with it came to the subject matter at hand. So, he restarted his presentation with:

  1. this is Tommy
  2. this is Tommy’s arm
  3. this is inside Tommy’s arm
  4. this is Tommy’s rotator cuff
  5. if tommy continues to do the things that I listed earlier, Tommy will have a boo-bo0 right there
  6. if tommy has a boo-boo right there he’ll need surgery and rehabilitation which will cost this franchise a lot of money.
  7. if you don’t correct these no-no things that I listed earlier, and Tommy gets a boo-boo, you’ll be fired.

So, somehow that last part of … “being fired” was language that we all understood very well. We took a break, mulled around, whispered among our selves … “can he really do that?” and returned to that cinderblock room.

The line of questions asked… “What’s that thing?”… "What does that thing do again?.. and so on.

The end result was this - sometimes when you have to call something… something, there’s just no other way to call something what it is, and how it works. In fact, to further add to my embarrassment, I was reminded of my statement and was told…
" this thing that looks like a lollypop, will be damaged if you do this. Also, because this thing that looks like a lollypop, is so important to the shoulder, you should want to know it’s proper name and how to explain techniques, to the pitcher that your babysitting for. "

Ok…Ok… I got it… thank you.

In my case, it all boiled down to learning things that I had heretofore taken for granted, safely convinced that I had enough “insight” in my job and how to do it. On the other hand, the human body and it’s process of doing things that I worked with, was a complex design of magnificent components - and - if I could understand the workings of that design and how personal and unique it was to everyone that I coached, and later on evaluated, I’d be a lot better at my job. Going on step further, bringing home a paycheck which made the Mrs. very happy. It’s important to keep the Mrs. very happy.

So, take the time to learn the language of instruction - all instruction presented to you. Understand the meaning of instruction and how the language works. Remember, sometimes the best way to explain something is … well… just the way something works.

I should point out that, verbal comments have serious limitations when it comes to coaching pitchers. That said, a verbal format has a number of barriers that have consequences after the fact, sort of speak. Problems with interpretation, preconceive notions, biasness and other influences are those consequences.

So as best we can here, take into account the “not being there with you” when approaching responses to you questions. Those that respond to questions here, do the best they can, again, given the media we’re all working with.

Also, in some cases here, a question is asked, then only to find out there’s more to the situation that “pops” up later on. For example, responding to a question only to find out that the person asking a question has had an injury or two a few months back.

I completely understand your frustration. I am in both the technology and medical field. I deal with complex issues of both a clinical and technical nature regularly. Many times I just shake my head and hit the back button about half way through some of the comments I see posted. Having a tremendous amount of knowledge is useless when your answer reads like a white paper being presented to a group of researchers at the 93rd Congress of The Pitching Theory Society.

I apologize in advance if this comment gets anyone’s transverse gluteus coverings into ipsilateral twist.

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Language is a beautiful thing… I really like the ….transverse gluteus coverings into ipsilateral twist…

Well… to be perfectly honest… after the fact… I had to look up the words… then put them in order as stated. I had to chuckle to myself… Nice …… TXJIM…

Quick story-
Latin is a language that is rather beautiful to listen to, but I don’t understand any of it. From what I understand, Latin is the foundation for many languages.

A far as understanding Latin, neither did a rookie we had who was trying desperately to date a Language Major at Penn State. Any who… he found out when her birthday was and sent flowers and chocolates to her dorm room. She returned his thoughtfulness with a note which read… et requiesceret pes rotata
Who says Language Majors don’t have a sense of humor…

:joy::joy:

Hope you all had a great holiday.

Great points. The same thing is happening in other aspects of the game, too. Stats have gotten incredibly complex. And then there are Spin rates, launch angles, exit velocity, etc.

I think the idea/hope was that analytics and these new ways of looking at the game would enhance the fan experience.

And, also, performance coaches were looking to validate their methods, as they’ve started to play an ever more important role to organizations because of how expensive injuries are.

On the whole, I’m not sure any of it is working to make the game more fun for fans, a better “product” so to speak.

And I’m not sure there is any indication that all this emphasis on deep analytics, and bio-mechanical analysis (which is where the technical jargon the comes in) is helping curb injuries, at all.

But it’s all here to stay.

Maybe should we start a glossary of definitions on this site?

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That’s a great idea. A glossary of terms specific to pitching and related circumstances. Come to think of it, I know of no other web site that does that.

Possibly a “slang” segment, following the official narration of a definition(s). One of my favorites was one used by a bench coach we had., with the definition of a “double play.” When one of our guys screwed up, our bench couch would call it a double play. “What?” usually followed with… " you know a double play… a double play… you get a chance to go out there and screw things up a second time…"

Yeah, this has bothered me for a long time. I don’t voice much about it anymore because coming from me, I look like the jerk who’s trying to urge every other coach to coach the way I coach.

But a lot of non-baseball people need to feel validated and feel smart by using big terms. It’s their safety blanket because I think without a strong playing career to validate them, they don’t have much left. And baseball people think that’s the new way they have to talk to be taken seriously.

These new garbage terms like “re-mapping” and “Sequencing” and countless others…they usually just describe concepts that already existed in a more complex and unusable way. It’s the class fallacy of “distinction without a difference.” The old terms were fine. Kinematics? There are synonyms.

Guruism is when you try to elevate yourself above followers through making them feel inferior and unable to understand your vast knowledge. People want to learn and understand, but they can’t be forced to study biomechanics to do so. It’s really a shame and im not sure there’s much to be done about it.

Me personally, I stay out of it and just shake my head. Getting in arguments with these people about it leads nowhere. So we’ll see.

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Friendwood45’s,

“They will dazzle you with brilliance. They will baffle you with BS”

You mean you never experienced dedicated serious people who gave you a positive vibe?

“It is hard for me to decipher between the two in the realm of pitching experts”

It’s because most of them are not actually educated in their field, even the few credentialed people butcher facts by their effort, many general trainers fall here…

“because of the language barrier.”

have you ever ask your self why you look at it as a barrier and not a door?

“I do like the new way people are instructing and thought that goes into it, but is there anyway to close the language gap without getting a doctorate? “

I learned about Marriam Webster long before middle school ended, no doctorate necessary. There is no embarrassment in asking for help at any time. Just go for it.

I have a suggestion for the inconvenienced coaches or parents out there!

There is a science that covers our game, it’s called Kinesiology, exercise physiology, Motor skill aquisition and Nutrition. The terms were set by the discoverer’s a long time ago and are easy to come by and understand.

Let your curiosity be your guide and new information and descriptive scientific words will not get in the way of your old approach, it will take you only as far as you want to go. Freedom allows for you to choose complaining about it with no effort.

The biggest problem as I see it is the meanings of “yard terms” that are all over the place, example, you hear and read to the detriment of followers, most athletic instructors say “stretch” a lot when they are describing the correct kineiological term “lengthening” of muscles when stretch has little to do with what is actually happening, but because this is the yard term used, people are led down a false narrative when this happens, just by it’s name. This is why when science names things they try to use fact base descriptive combination names.

When dealing with youth (adults whatever floats your boat) medical issues related to throwing and pitching only exacting scientific terms and explanation need be used that are normally easily understood with the smallest effort.

Do no harm

Steven Ellis,

“performance coaches were looking to validate their methods”

They need only trust what they have been taught, no validation necessary, universities around the world have all ready figured out how it all works physiologically, you only need apply it. Thousands of clinical research projects, not Johnie past player or sports psychologist playing kinesiologist.

“as they’ve started to play an ever more important role to organizations because of how expensive injuries are.”

Ya think !? Yet the leading overhead throwing expert in the world Dr. Mike Marshall has been Black balled out of the MLB since he last worked for them as a player and his research has eliminated joint injuries with joint clean Kinetic chains. I think they are having there own effort problems with the terms, then balk
They had a chance (Ortho’s panel) to give him a research grant this year that they offer, he applied for it to explain how to avoid injuries but the people running things think the way they are doing it (pitch counts) will be better. This means more surgical opportunities for them. CRICKETS.

“On the whole, I’m not sure any of it is working to make the game more fun for fans, a better “product” so to speak.”

Since Dr. Marshall’s info on forearm pronation and better rotational effort by staying taller and “sport specific” training we see in newer arrivals at the MlB level and every where else, velocities have jumped way up as predicted. Have you wondered why the arm healthy forearm pronated fastball Sinker is being deployed more and more every year? When the rest of the info is absorbed through time, batters are going to have to adjust or look like fools and you will see another astounding new revelation in batting that again was all ready produced in the past.

“I’m not sure there is any indication that all this emphasis bio-mechanical analysis (which is where the technical jargon the comes in) is helping curb injuries, at all.”

Biomechanical analysis on all ready known pathomechanics gives you info on pathomechanics, not on healthy mechanics. This is where all pseudo research fails in mitigation! The new approach brought forth by people like Dr. Marshall’s and his tenets is making a huge difference in those that participate.

I have been teaching these for 20 years now and have had no joint injuries since.

What you are witnessing is the same old approach continuing to fail by non engagement like you see everywhere. It starts by not attempting to understand the new improved paradigm by lesser effort about the terms and having incorrectly stated how it works in their pasts.

“But it’s all here to stay”

The traditional throwing and pitching notion is not going to be pathomechanically mitigated until actual physiological changes are made.

“Maybe should we start a glossary of definitions on this site?”

Absolutely!!! It’s been needed to be done for a long time now!
Let the terms begin. How is this going to be done? Maybe our excellent moderator coach Baker can start a sticky list he can edit as we participate. I would suggest a list with the scientific meaning matched with the yard terms.

Dirtberry,
The more I thought about this “Glossary of Terms” the more I’m convinced that it’ll be an exercise in - Who’s got a better penmanship in the yellow snow."

On this web site over the years, there has been a following, and naysayers, of Marshall. Enough of these debates on the pro’s-n-con’s of anything even remotely associated with Marshall has taken us all down a very uneasy exchange.

Add to all this are claims and counterclaims of what’s-what, as it pertains to this topic - pitching.

Rather than having a campaign trial of ranting egos, hurt feelings and whatever else that I can’t think of at the moment, I suggest a continuation of what we have and let it go at that.

I spend the better part of the evening and into the AM hours, monitoring content - clearing out a lot of stuff that our younger viewers need not see. So, based on how this exchange has gone so far, I would recommend leaving well enough alone.

I spend better than 21 years in the Indies putting up will all kinds of…" I know more than you do … nana-naana=nah…." I’ hate like the Dickins to see it pop up here …. anymore than it does.

Elon Musk, Steve Job, Richard Branson and others didn’t leave it up to consumers to do extra homework to understand. These men give speeches that read on a fourth grade reading level, and they do so because complexity is the enemy. Buy in starts with clarity.

If Musk can make his battery technology simple for end users to understand, so can coaches.

@Dirtberry you should consider reading one of Carmine Gallo’s books on speaking and communication. May give a different perspective.

I remember back in elementary school, a pretty good while back, we would go to the restroom in groups. It became a game to see who could move back the furthest and still make it into the porcelain. No trophies were awarded, no ranking lists were made, just a messy floor for the janitors to clean up.

Sorry for making a messy floor Coach Baker, it was not my intent.

Sorry for making a messy floor Coach Baker, it was not my intent.
No negative intent taken.
CoachDanBlewett
you should consider reading one of Carmine Gallo’s books on speaking and communication. May give a different perspective.
This is the kind of exchange we’re going to avoid, please.

coach Baker

“The more I thought about this “Glossary of Terms” the more I’m convinced that it’ll be an exercise in - Who’s got a better penmanship in the yellow snow ."”

This is how dissension starts by having these thoughts and then displaying them here. Why must people always go there? Why can’t it be just what it is, just definitions?

“On this web site over the years, there has been a following, and naysayers, of Marshall.”

Your job is to clean up the personal attacks, bad word behavior and the rest when they happen, not make up reasons to eliminate information before it happens. I have never given you or any body else a reason to not participate in a positive light. Yet when someone complains about hard language to understand it usually means to them “I don’t want to”.

“ Enough of these debates on the pro’s-n-con’s of anything even remotely associated with Marshall has taken us all down a very uneasy exchange.”

Why? The info had me balk 20 years ago but I tried what he suggested and it worked… Now players are taking the info and running with it. I’m just here to qualify it. No harm no foul.
It’s just an approach.

“Add to all this are claims and counterclaims of what’s-what, as it pertains to this topic - pitching.”

How is it people can have counter claims if they never have been there?

“Rather than having a campaign trial of ranting egos”

Rather than claiming a glossary would be “a campaign trial of ranting egos”, why not give it a shot and see if it helps people understand better?

“hurt feelings and whatever else that I can’t think of at the moment”

Why again? All the reasons you have given so far can be avoided with just positive consideration and good moderating.

“I suggest a continuation of what we have and let it go at that.”

This has not been good enough as you have seen in the past that continues today, ignorance is given a pass.

“I spend the better part of the evening and into the AM hours, monitoring content - clearing out a lot of stuff that our younger viewers need not see. So, based on how this exchange has gone so far, I would recommend leaving well enough alone.”

Please, take me back and show me where I said something contentious? Im just giving our approach.

I spend better than 21 years in the Indies putting up will all kinds of…" I know more than you do … nana-naana=nah… ."

You keep using this reason for not letting positive and factual information pass. Try thinking about it positively? I’m here for the opposite reasons. I know some helpful information that I want youth players and parents know that protects them.

I’m sure you noticed when others try to make these problems continually exist by negative banter, I leave them to their false assertions like the hateful comment coach Paul made “No Mike Marshall pitcher will ever throw 101-106 mph. End of story. “ when I personally have had 2 and Dr. Marshall many more than that, that I can name. This false hate speech is what you are talking about not a definitions thread, why mix the 2?

Give it a shot, lets see if people can better understand? I personnally think you would be best person for this, I know it’s work but you seem to have always pushed your plow, why stop now?

coachDanBlewett,

“Elon Musk, Steve Job, Richard Branson and others didn’t leave it up to consumers to do extra homework to understand.”

So you are one of those guy’s that do not look at instructions when dealing with safe and sane products, some that can kill you? Not the same when dealing with an epidemic of continued youth pitching pathologies (injuries).

Dr. Marshall doesn’t charge a dime for his life changing information, he’s not marketing anything like them. Full transparency.

Youth pitchers do not have this luxury unless there is no other alternative. There is an alternative that works and it is best produced with factual terminology.

“These men give speeches that read on a fourth grade reading level, and they do so because complexity is the enemy. Buy in starts with clarity.”

You are saying a definitions thread is not trying to find clarity?

“If Musk can make his battery technology simple for end users to understand, so can coaches.”

He’s very clear and technical in saying your battery will only last so long! What else is there?
Coaches in those industries are the engineers and they need to know their particular scientific principles.

"@Dirtberry you should consider reading one of Carmine Gallo’s books on speaking and communication. May give a different perspective.”

I will take your suggestion and run with it. I have always thought giving the factual definitions first would lead to discussions on why it needs to be done this way and then explain in simpler and maybe misleading yard terms later. I am aware if I understand it well enough that I should be able to explain it simply.

Dirtberry - This rant of yours will cease here, now.

Sorry coach Baker I just really wan’t you to do this!

Suggesting a book that I’ve read–in a civil tone–is “the kind of exchange we’re going to avoid?”

Sorry but I don’t need you to explain to me how to interact with others. There was not one malicious, snarky or arrogant undertone in that post. Feel free to re-read it.

You’re right, recommending a book is not anything more than recommending a book, we need more not less of friendly interaction.