MPH just not seeming to add on?


#1

I’m a 6’4 RHP. 185 pd. I am under a strict strength and conditioning program on mondays, tuesdays ,wednesdays , fridays and i throw on wednesdays and sundays with a top summer ball program. with all this hardwork i am only at 80-83. we started throwing in the middle of november and they are correcting my mechanics for a longer stride and and sometimes i jerk my head (shoulders clearling out). I have a huge pitching event in mid january… Someone please held me out. its very frustrating


#2

post video - from a mound, max effort, close up from the side, rear, and front.


#3

Well man I would like you to tell us a little more about your strength/conditioning program. In my opinion you sound overtrained.


#4

I have some questions relative to your height and weight. I don’t mean to be personal, but it would help me to first know you a little better and to make suggestions from there:
1.) how would YOU describe your build:

  • tall and thin
  • tall and athletic
  • tall and muscular
    2.) from the base of your palm (where the wrist meets the bottom of your hand) measure in inches to the top of your middle finger. (pitching hand)
    3.) with your pitching hand stretched out, measure in inches how wide your hand is, from the far reach of your thumb to the far reach of your pinky.
    4.) what is your waist size?
    5.) is this the first year that your with a strength and conditioning program?
    6.) has this strength and conditioning program set forth a training table for you?diet/nutrition) if so, how many calories per day are you tracking? what is the protein load set for? what time table and quanities are set for your carbohydrate intake prior to your workouts? what time table and quanities are set for your protein load after workouts? Has your metabolism rate -prior to -during - after, workouts been considered taking into account your training table (diet/nutrition)?
    7.) what is your hydration routines.
    8.) what is your rack times (sleep) disciplines?
    9.) are you under the supervision of a certified trainer, or just a coach hired/retained by your organization?

10.) on a scale from one (1) to ten(10), how would you rate your stamina, tolerance, and physical endurance. one(1) being poor, ten(10) being excellent.

Coach B.


#5

1.) tall and athletic
2.) 7 3/4 inches
3.) just under 9 inches
4.) 34-36
5.) Not my 1st year. 3rd year - started as a sophmore. Starts Nov. 1st every year and goes up to mid February every year.
6.) there is no set nutrition for us. (i drink protein after and a pre workout supplement before)
7.) As far as what i drink is mostly all water juice and milk
8.) weekdays im in bed by 1030 weekends are later
9.) certified trainer

10.) 7-8


#6

I was at Wolforth’s coaches clinic earlier this month. He is now using Gray Cook’s functional movement screen to access for constraints that limit performance. For some people, the constraint may be strength, for others, lack of flexablitiy, others, assymetry and others, mechanics. What may be benefitial is to have an accessment to see what your weaknesses and work on improving your weaknesses. Weaknesses are breaks that keep you from reaching your full potential. Remember one size does not fir all.


#7

Without actually see you at work, or, knowing more history, here’s my observations and suggestions:

QUESTION> from the base of your palm (where the wrist meets the bottom of your hand) measure in inches to the top of your middle finger. (pitching hand) ANSWER: 7 3/4 INCHES
QUESTION>. with your pitching hand stretched out, measure in inches how wide your hand is, from the far reach of your thumb to the far reach of your pinky. ANSWER: 9 INCHES (approx)

7 3/4 inches is the measurement from the base of your palm to the top of your middle finger, suggests a below average palm/middle finger ratio for a pitcher of your height. Most pitchers who are mature in development, with a height of 5’8" to 6’ have that kind of reach-palm/middle finger measurement. There are exceptions to be sure. But with your height/weight ratio, and your waist measurement, combined with your overall assessment of your stamina and endurance, a larger hand length would allow you greater delivery snap.

On the other hand, 9 inches from thumb to pinky is very good and therein lies your strongest asset with your pitching hand - BUT, a built in fault if not identified.

What fault?

For a pitcher your size, you could be compressing the ball too tight into your pitching hand thus counteracting any benefit(s) derived from the rest of your body’s assets. Check to see how deep you hold the ball in your hand. Since your strength lies in the width of your hand, not in its length,
I would suggest placing the ball along the calluses of your pitching hand, then sneak the tips of your fingers along the ball - depending on what pitch your going to deliver. You want to leave a space between your palm and the surface of the ball. Now your pitching hand will have two things working for it. FIRST the short length of your fingers grip will hold the ball steady for you and will give you confidence in the security of the grip. SECOND, the wide spread of your fingers will allow your pitching hand to reduce the margin of push with the release. This margin of push is associated with a baseball being released with a certain amount of “no rotation”. A knuckleball is an excellent example of a release with a material amount of margin of push. A 98 mph fastball should have very little margin of push , with the seams spinning like a buzz saw.

Your waist size is baseline for an pitcher of your height and age. A little more muscle and girth would add to your overall core strength and presence. I would work on Russian Crunches off a weight bench and grind out a heavy set of reps … at the direction of your trainer/coaches.

QUESTION>Has this strength and conditioning program set forth a training table for you?diet/nutrition. If so, how many calories per day are you tracking? What is the protein load set for? What time table and quantities are set for your carbohydrate intake prior to your workouts? What time table and quantities are set for your protein load after workouts? Has your metabolism rate -prior to -during - after, workouts been considered taking into account your training table (diet/nutrition)
ANSWER:there is no set nutrition for us. (I drink protein after and a pre workout supplement before)

Here is your biggest fault line. Your regiment of training is not being supported by a foundation of diet and nutrition. I’m not a registered dietitian nor am I a certified nutritionist, but I will tell you that if your not tracking at least a 2,000 calorie a day intake religiously, combined with all of the DRQ -Daily Required Quantities of vitamins and miners, fiber, hydration routines to support enzymes and their work, your grossly undercutting yourself. When you start to train as an athlete, you no long have the luxury of treating that equipment - from the chin on down, with mind set from the chin on up - as you please. It’s hard work consuming 2,000 calories a day and still balancing the scales with all the DRQ’s. I strongly suggest for your basic health and longevity, consider studying more on the subject. In addition, with an athlete’s training table - your constantly eating, instead of sitting down for three times a day with snacks in between. As an athlete your constantly feeding that machine (you) to keep the metabolic furnace going. All in all, a training table gives you a baseline, a foundation if you will, to enhance your workouts and any benefits, repairs the body, fights off illness, and a host of other stuff.

So, as long as other things remain equal in your training, take some of these suggests to a practice session and see how things work out.

Coach B.

ps
A pitching hand with those measurements should dominate the slider world. But then that’s for another posting. Think about it.


#8

Slewbacca, any other big takeaways from the coaches clinic? I knew the Gray Cook stuff was going to be in there. How was the day with Wolforth working with the variuos pitchers?I ordered the DVDs but do not expect them for a while.


#9

[quote=“BillK”]

Slewbacca, any other big takeaways from the coaches clinic? I knew the Gray Cook stuff was going to be in there. How was the day with Wolforth working with the variuos pitchers?I ordered the DVDs but do not expect them for a while.[/quote]

Probably the biggest thing coming out of the clinic was the idea of accessing weaknesses and correcting them. The other big thing was the deceleration drills to protect the shoulder and elbow. Brent Strom talked about errors that pitching coaches make and things he looks for in scouting players. There was a couple of presentations on strength training. These were so so.
Flint Wallace spent 2 hours on pitching mechanics that was great. Wolforth then went over their new warmup and backchaining drills.


#10

Well. Wolforth is not the place to go for assessment, but hopefully the other stuff is good.


#11

Dubby43…are you only throwing 2 days a week right now?? If that is true, what do the throwing days consist of??

It seems like you are doing a whole lot of strength training and not enough throwing…

Of course it is impossible to really give you advice based on the information you gave but don’t get lost in the story that you must spend all your time working hard at strength training and then are surprised you are not gaining velocity in your throwing…

Also, be careful on your mechanical fixes, especially in stride length…stride length is great to improve upon but you would do so indirectly…meaning if you truly need to increase stride length you do so by focusing on carrying the middle of your body down the mound better or there are a couple other focuses but you wouldn’t just try to reach out further with your stride leg because that will take you out of sequence…

In regards to the comments about assessments and working on weaknesses this is also tricky ground…what I mean by that is it is one thing to identify weaknesses and a whole other thing to truly know how to work on them…Gray Cooks Functional Assessment is ok accept for the fact that his assessment drills are not natural movements that a person makes everyday…it is almost where you would have to be trained to make those movements before you did the assessment and then you could get a reading on where you stand…the only sure fired way to assess someone is with their walk…they do it everyday, all day and it is autonomous and nobody would have to think about how they walk when being assessed…but when doing some of what Gray Cook has in his program you would definitely have to think about what you are doing and now it is not a proper assessment…I fully understand how it can show some strength and flexibility issues but just because you don’t pass one of his assessments doesn’t mean you can’t, it just means you may have never done that precise movement before and need to make yourself more familiar with it.

There is sooooo much info out there these days it is difficult to read through the lines on all of it…


#12

Some personal observations.

Dubby could be the poster child for what I find wrong with the whole paradigm. Because of his physical stature, he and everyone else just accepts he’s “underachieving”, can easily be “fixed”, and certainly has a bright future in the game. But if he were say 5’9, I seriously doubt things would be the same, either from his viewpoint or anyone else’s.

Heck, not that it makes a great deal of difference, but unless I missed something, I don’t know his age or if he’s a HS or college Sr. I’m guessing HS SR because college players would likely have long since changed over to a playing mode rather than strength and conditioning mode by mid-Feb…

Depending on the situation, a HS Sr, can be extremely successful with his velocity, so since he’s so frustrated, I’m assuming he’s either not been very successful in his career to date, or he’s entertaining thoughts of suddenly going from an “average” HS pitcher to an “elite” HS pitcher in the next 8 weeks, and then having an absolutely stellar Sr season that will get him on the serious scholarship radar.

Doug sure seems to have the correct idea. Much more needs to be known, and great care needs to be taken in what kind of mechanical “fixes” are attempted. Its obvious there’s been something “wrong” if he’s a HS Sr and at the point he is. Somewhere along the line, either the “advice” he’s received has been lacking in substance, or he’s not devoted himself to giving the max effort possible.

At this point in time, if it’s the former and he’s continuing to allow those same “advisers” to control him, I seriously doubt he’s going to see much of a substantive change. However, if it’s the latter and now he’s dedicating himself to do whatever it takes, the chances are more in favor for increasing performance.

No matter what the case, I’d really like to know how old he is, what neck of the woods he’s in, what his immediate and long term goals are, if the help he’s receiving is coming from his team coaches or some other entity, and if there’s going to be any “issues” once the season starts with conflicting advice.


#13

I have heard that a pitcher’s stride should be at least 100% of his height.
Less than that, and he will lose velocity.
However, a pitcher must be able to control his delivery.
If his stride is too long, and the pitcher does not have good body posture and balance, he will lose velocity and be more subject to injury.
Body posture and balance is important!
The head should be kept over the center of gravity.
It is especially important that the pitcher start with his head over his center of gravity.
And last, but certainly not least-
do not fill your head with worries about your pitching event.
Think positive thoughts!
Concentrate on your pitching delivery, work on your mechanics.
Velocity and success on the mound are results of hard work
and good pitching mechanics.


#14

dubby43

Have you had the opportunity to talk with your trainer/coaches about a training table (diet and nutrition) system that compliments your work and theirs?

Other suggestions, due to the limitations of this media, can be a starting point for talking with your coaches - perhaps about things/techniques that might spur a deeper conversation and a “look-see” that’ll assist you. Just a thought.

Best wishes with your progress. Please keep us posted on your development.

Coach B.


#15

idk if this could be a valid reason for where i am but last high school season i missed the whole season from medial epicondylitis and a aggravated ulnar nerve.


#16

dubby, what state do you live in?


#17

aggravated ulnar nervemedial epicondylitis

Where the heck did these come from!!!

Am I missing something? I’ve read and re-read your posting, and no where did I pick up event a hint of this?

So you missed an entire year of competition due to these conditions. Now, you’re wondering why and what-for. You’ve also left a big piece of the puzzle out of your orginal visit.

Did you think that maybe, just maybe, some one here would guess … " Ah, gee… did you have any aggravated ulnar nerve, or maybe medial epicondylitis.

Of all those that responded - you could have done justice to Scorekeeper who addressed a bigger picture, and Slewbacca,BillK,dwhite66, and CardsWin.

Is there any missing clues that we should search for? Have any pole vaulting accidents, head-on collisions, surfing wipeouts, donate a kidney lately??? You know… little stuff like that.

I’ll say this up front and now …I’m sorry for the wise cracks, but, you left a big hole in every one’s effort to help you.

Coach B.


#18

i don’t think you throw near enough. i want my pitchers throwing at least 5 days per week in some form or fashion, long toss, catch, bullpens, etc. your training schedule looks like you’re a weightlifter who pitches on the side. you need to pitch and do strength/conditioning to help. don’t get me wrong. my son throws and lifts 6 days per week (even in season). there is no substitute for paying your dues with sweat and hard work. the only way you will learn to pitch is throw the ball


#19

Dusty, you’ve got it!!!
My wise and wonderful pitching coach told me, “Throw every day.” Whether it would be just playing catch for fifteen or twenty minutes or doing a full bullpen session, throw every day. That’s the best way I know of to strengthen the arm and at the same time keep it loose and flexible—the surest way to avoid injury. And so I did. I never had a problem finding a catcher who would pull on a mitt and a mask and catch for me. A couple of times a week we would play “ball and strike”—the catcher would position his mitt in various places, high, low, inside, outside, every which way but standing on his head :lol: , and I would work on things like control and placement of my various pitches—and refining that crossfire which I used much of the time (I was a natural sidearmer). It was great fun and a fabulous workout, and I never had a sore arm or a sore elbow or a sore shoulder or a sore anything else.
I was watching, on the MLB Network, Bob Costas’ interview with the late great Bob Feller, and something Feller said really resonated with me. He complained, and rightly so, that the problem with pitchers nowadays was that tney didn’t throw enough! What with all the babying and mollycoddling of those pitchers, the innings limitations and the pitch counts and all that nonsense, they were not being permitted to stretch out and go deep into games! Back in the day, when I played, I had a regular turn in the rotation, and sometimes I would relieve between starts (which counted as “throwing every day”), and I went the distance and won a lot of games, and when I relieved I rescued a lot of games, and no sweat, no problem. Nowadays—things have changed, and I’m afraid not for the better.
Anyway—THROW EVERY DAY! 8) :baseballpitcher: