Momentum Question

#1

I’ve heard a little bit about hip and shoulder seperation before I became apart of this forum… but… I’ve never been told anything about developing momentum before the peak of your kneelift. After looking at some of the clips from pitchingclips.com I see some of the best gaining momentum.

My question is, why isn’t this theory preached across the globe in baseball? I’ve played four years of professional baseball and division one baseball and have not heard this idea once. Actually, I’ve heard the exact opposite, gain a balance point. Why is this? Is this a relatively new idea? I also realized that there are pitchers who still collect themselves at a balance point, and seem to never get the extension they could, nor the momentum they should. Dan Haren comes to mind. Seems like these guys turn more into drop and drivers instead of allowing the momentum pull your foot off the rubber. Also, Papelbon comes to mind. So, this all being said, I can see clear advantages just by working dry work in my apartment supporting the gaining momentum idea.

What are some advantages of “staying back” and gaining a balance point. Honestly, I don’t see any. I’m pretty sure if done properly, gaining momentum will generate more hand speed and extension, but I’m also convinces it will help command also.

#2

As far as I know, no one reaches a balance point and stays there really…

#3

[quote=“Hammer”]I’ve heard a little bit about hip and shoulder seperation before I became apart of this forum… but… I’ve never been told anything about developing momentum before the peak of your kneelift. After looking at some of the clips from pitchingclips.com I see some of the best gaining momentum.

My question is, why isn’t this theory preached across the globe in baseball?[/quote]
Too much conventional wisdom and stubborn “this is how I’ve always done it” attitude among coaches.

That’s actually not surprising.

There’s that conventional wisdom again.

I’d say it is relatively new. I think it’s taken the application of science and technology possibly motivated by the desire to reduce injuries for people to start to understand the biokinetics of throwing a baseball and how the body generates energy. Unfortunately there are a lot of coaches whose minds are closed to the science.

Have you ever seen Doug Davis (Diamondbacks)?

Putting a bigger bend in the back leg enables one to push off harder so drop and drive becomes the most effective way to generate significant momentum if you’ve gathered at the balance point.

Can you say “towel drill”?

You’re right. Getting it going earlier and faster has big implications on timing. Improved timing, in turn, has implications on command. Plus it also has implications for avoiding injury.

#4

The “stay back” cue is useful when it refers to the upper body. As fast as the lower body goes, the upper body needs to stay behind it. That’s how hip/shoulder separation is achieved.

#5

Good points, Palo.

I wonder what percentage of the time that the “stay back” cue is used it is actually intended to refer to the upper half only? And what percentage of those times is it interpretted that way? :wink:

#6

[quote=“Roger”]Good points, Palo.

I wonder what percentage of the time that the “stay back” cue is used it is actually intended to refer to the upper half only? And what percentage of those times is it interpretted that way? :wink:[/quote]

Maybe it’s always used to refer to the upper half but never explained to ensure that interpretation.

#7

Great points guys, thanks for the feedback. It’s really mind boggling to me.

Your exactly right about the drop and drive point Roger. To me, that’s almost false momentum though because I still don’t think they can get to their maximum potential extension. Not to mention it appears those guys fall off the mound at the end of delivery.

Honestly guys, when I’ve heard the phrase Stay Back, its been directly affiliated with staying over the rubber, letting just the front foot lead. Again, I’ve never heard hips and momentum.

Doug Davis, what a classic example. That guy kills me. Up and down with the lift and follow the mound down and generate NO momentum! But heck, he’s in the big leagues I guess.

#8

Davis did much better this season than I thought he would. That just goes to show it is possible to get good doing things in less than optimal ways. But that’s probably the slow way to get there. I do think Davis could improve his velocity by using some momentum. Of course, at this point in his career, that would be a pretty big change.

#9

pap has a fairly long stride:

so if his stride is this long without gaining momentum before leg lift, how does he get his stride that long?

i know its a bit off topic, sry

#10

Papelbon is a drop and driver… he drives away from the rubber instead of letting his body pull himself away from the rubber.

#11

Momentum before leg lift is not a NECESSITY to gain momentum, it’s just the easiest way for most. Papelbon is fairly straight up with his leg lift, but he creates great explosiveness from the top of the leg lift to release. There are exceptions to every rule and many different ways of being successful. Doug Davis never really gets his tempo going and he doesn’t throw very hard, but velocity at the highest level is not the top priority like it is for most on this board.

I don’t like the term “drop and drive,” I think it’s outdated. To me, drop and drive means dropping down, then driving. I don’t know of anyone that does this. The back knee gets some bend because we’re pitching downhill, it has to bend. It doesn’t mean that a pitcher is a drop and driver. I think if we saw Papelbon from the side we would see that he is moving explosively to the target while the back leg “drops.”

#12

If you watch all the great pitchers they do lift and drive the hip at the same time it is needed if you want make momentum because you get the whole body at the target without staying back to long. I rather see a pitcher lift and drive at same time then lift and then stay back to long like most do.

#13

Papelbon is a closer meaning he doesn’t have to pitch as much at any one time.

Starting forward when you bring your leg up makes it easier to do the rest of your mechanics so they are more efficient and you can do them longer.