Mike Marshall

What are your thoughts on Mike Marshall’s feelings? He has impressive credentials, but he is controversial.

Do you know how many pitchers he has put in the major leagues?

he teaches a radical approach to pitching, i would recommend staying away from him and using a traditional pitching method used by millionaires throughout major league baseball. use slow motion video and interviews with hall of famers to develop your program. sometimes what they describe is not what you feel but it may help you get in the position they are talking about.

i did a long post on this you can find in the golden thread. it’s kind of old but you should be able to find it.

Well, he put one pitcher in the majors, Jeff Sparks. He played for the Devil Rays, then he got cut.

I mentioned some time ago that while I was doing some research for a paper on pitching coaches I went out to Zephyrhills, FL to talk to him—and after the allotted two hours I couldn’t get out of there fast enough!! He reminded me most unpleasantly of those people of particular religious persuasions who are thoroughly convinced that theirs is the only True Path—and when I asked him a perfectly reasonable question about pitching deliveries other than the straight-over-the-top, he summarily dismissed them as “silly”.
And to think that in 1974 he had a career year with the Dodgers! What a consummate nincompoop. :shock: :x

marshall lays claim to one guy that didn’t stick, can’t name another.

how many guys that leo mazzone workked with are going to the hall of fame. how about the dodger and yankee organization. look at this objectively without emotion. this has been around for years now without results. if he’s worked with let’s say 200 pitchers in 10+ years, how many are going on to play professionally and in major colleges? it’s hard to find te data which usually means there’s not much there.

you must respect wolforth and his data driven methods. he is radical and over the top in some of the things he does, but his guys get drafted, go to d1 schools, and do not break down very often. hard to argue with results (unless you just like to argue or you’re an idiot), and we’ve all ran into those folks.

the best in any profession i’ve come across in dealing with people, made it simple, were successful doing what they do, and were easy to talk to. marshal’s credentials as a pitcher are outstanding (using a traditional throwing motion and throwing every day like wolforth’s boot camp guys), his education is outstanding (ph.d. in kinesiology, etc), his success as a pitching coach is almost non-existent.

go figure. but remember, this is my opinion and what have i really done? baseball theory and philosophy is something, why it usually takes place in a bar.

Who is Wolforth?

The only gurus I know of are O’Leary, Mills, Mazzone, Ellis(who is my favorite, thanks Steven!), Marshall, and the NPA.

[quote=“kevinbert28”]Who is Wolforth?

The only gurus I know of are O’Leary, Mills, Mazzone, Ellis(who is my favorite, thanks Steven!), Marshall, and the NPA.[/quote]

Oh man, I’m no guru :slight_smile: I feel like gurus need to know magic tricks and stuff. Like real ones…

Well you do run the best site on pitching, and you give people tips, so that is, in fact, a guru(sort of). The thing is, guys like you and Mazzone do not teach one specific method.

[quote=“kevinbert28”]Who is Wolforth?

The only gurus I know of are O’Leary, Mills, Mazzone, Ellis(who is my favorite, thanks Steven!), Marshall, and the NPA.[/quote]

Guru is an interesting term. While there are people like House, Mills, Nyman, Wolforth, Marshall, and others who sell their product and promote it, there are also 30 MLB pitching coaches and 30 minor league pitching coordinators and countless minor league pitching coaches who know a whole lot about pitching.

I’m not saying they’re all good, but there are some great pitching minds out there who don’t promote or sell.

Just something to keep in mind.

nah, unless you want to throw like a girl.

p.s. even girlier than knuckleball pitchers.

I was first introduced to Mike Marshall’s pitching methods/theories while watching Diamond Demos on MLB network. I knew who he was and everything but I didn’t know he had this radical approach to pitching theory.
As I watched I found his demonstrations to be somewhat impressive but I noticed that the guy he had doing the demos with him wasn’t a big league pitcher. I thought “Oh OK that’s a little odd but I’m sure at some point during the show he’ll pop off a list of big leagers using his methods”. Well that moment never came and that’s when I dismissed even considering trying some of the stuff he had demonstrated.
I also found it odd that he knocked traditional pitching methods every chance he got. It seemed like he had a real grudge against the establishment so to speak. Of course, I found out later that this was probably due to the fact that none of his methods were being used in the big leagues.

BTW I read your post in the GOLDEN THREADS section delso. Very inspiring. I’m sure if more people knew before hand exactly what it takes to be world class, they’d be much more willing to accept mediocrity and just try to have fun with no delusions of grandeur. That’s where I’m at.
However, I can still work hard to be the best at whatever mediocre level I’m playing at. There would be a lot more happiness out there if people knew how to make their expectations jive with reality.

Marshall’s ideas are different yes, but are they necessarily dumb or stupid No. I don’t know if he has created a new pitching delivery that will someday revolutionize pitching, he may have or he may have not. Remember he has not ever had major league talent come his way. All of his students have been mediocre pitchers (talent wise). If he had some prime talent, who knows what may happen. I think what scares me about Marshall is his attitude that its his way or the highway. Now there is a difference between not agreeing with other opinions and not listening. Marshall simply doesn’t listen to other opinions. He attacks anybody who says anything negative againest his style and that is why I choose to give him little respect in my book. I respect his ideas and that he tried something new. I think he may be onto something, he saw a problem (injuries) and tried to address it. But like many new ideas it shocked everybody who saw it and that combined with Marshalls attitude is why many people simply refuse to listen to him.

Yes Marshall believes that if you do not use his theroies, your arm will be trashed in a year.

We certainly know it will not.

he seems too much of a mad scientist to me… The way he talked about pitchers are like lab rats that he can experiment on. as if some club would send some young prospect to him just for him to experiment on unless a guy is seriously hurt and dont consider other options (knuckleball, batter, scouts, PR manager etc.)

As I said—he’s a consummate nincompoop. And while I was talking with him I noticed that he never once got up off the bench to go over and check on what a couple of pitchers he had in his yard were doing; he just sat there and scribbled in a notebook. For all I knew, he might well have been writing down a recipe for seasoned mashed potatoes.
When you look at some of the great pitching coaches who worked in the major leagues and who really helped a great number of pitchers get squared away…Mr. Marshall is strictly bush league.

Who do you think is the best pitching coach? I really like Dave Duncan.

how different are the pitching mechanics taught by these people and which of them have shown the best result so far?

btw I wouldnt trust O’leary either, I was pitching better without his advice. he care too much about those inverted stuff and is in a cult with Marshall. He was like a avid fan of Marshall but after Marshall “discredit” him, he went nuts and started to discredit Marshall on his site as well. LOL

Ah, I like oleary, he helped me a lot.