Mechanics ? GS advice

Video from last nights workout. He’s got a solid pitching coach that has worked with him last 2 years. They are going to address staying closed a little longer.

Any feedback, specifically glove action is appreciated. He seems a lil sloppy with his glove even at the leg lift, but I could use some education.

  • excellent shoulder rotation
  • excellent drive foward
  • excellent athletic balance

suggestion:
when you turn to start your delivery cycle, you drop you arms, then when you start to deliver while moving forward - you bring your arms back up.

My suggestion would be to keep your arms (elbows) up, at least arm pit high, and continue your shoulder rotation and delivery. You’ll more than likely find a much better strike by location, and your fatigue rate will be less.

While your going through your motions inside your garage, I would suggest limiting your force to about 70%. Go easy on the deliberate hard throwing, for now.

I’m sure there will be other comments to help you, but for now, give my suggestions a try. By the way, when and if you do, you’ll notice a burn starting in your shoulders. When you do, shut down for a few minutes, roll you’re arms and shoulders around in a windmill - about 10 reps, hydrate (water), rest for a few minutes, then start again.

I make these suggestions considering that you have NO injuries in the past that will interfer with this format. So, I assume that you have no broken bones, dislocated shoulders, elbow problems, wirst problems or other things that might complicate your visit. (right?)

Other than that, you look very, very solid.

Coach B.

ALSO…
In the video, notice how easy your shoulders rotate, exchanging the glove side shoulder with your pitching side shoulder.

However, when you bring your arms (elbows) up, as I suggested, sometimes a pitcher’s concentration laps just a bit. In other words, the shoulder rotation lags so the pitcher ends up with little if any rotation of the shoulders.

Be very, very deliberate here. Concentrate on moving your chest to your glove - but not overly so, just let it happen. Once that delivery motion starts, say to yourself — ROTATE… ROTATE… ROTATE. All of what you did in your video will start to come together and you’ll notice a nice clean arch to your overall arm and shoulder motion. Also, you’ll start releasing more in front of your stride knee, instead of over you head.

Again, you look very, very strong.

Coach B.

His front side is too quick. Do the coach teach pulling the glove? This pitcher’s glove is tucked to his side by foot plant. He needs to be in an equal and opposite position at foot plant.

The first step is to work on the mechanic of getting the glove arm extended further out front to mirror the throwing arm. (Change the glove arm - not the throwing arm.) After that, work on the timing of it - try to be “equal and opposite” as close to front foot plant as possible.

Once the timing is there, that will allow the shoulders to stay closed longer. (Shoulders shouldn’t rotate until after front foot plant and the remainder of hip rotation.) Pulling the glove almost always leads to early shoulder rotation. Unfortunately, it’s a hard habit to break - takes lots of reps.

Coach B:

I’m not sure I’m clear on “elbows up”… are you describing scap loading arm action with a higher hand break? We are getting into territories of mechanics past my knowledge… you may half too “dumb” it down for me.

He was supposed to go 70%… they just did a workout (Wolforth’s Combat stuff) and wanted to look at some mechanics as we get prepped for the season. They threw into a mat 25’ feet or so away. He’s 12 so the attn span is short… these two were the last of 15 & he probably worked himself up to game speed towards the end.

Roger:

Im not sure if he’s a pull guy or not… I know his coach wants him “up/closed” at foot plant. We’ll see what he covers over the next couple of weeks & how he likes to get there. We’ve had a great relationship with him & its likely going to be his HS coach… hopefully he’s a chest to glove guy.

Without any instruction I’ve seen my son go from a natural chest to glove move (Maddux replica) at age 10 to last year getting into a tuck position. He was opening up early even as a chest to glover. He released closer to the plate w/ chest to glove from what i could see on film.

I’m an old school “tucker”… he may have picked it up from facing me while we throw?

Should the glove hand go directly up & out at hand break, sweep open slowly & then stablize til foot plant? At the same time allow the PAS go down out & up to hi cock? Feels right to me, but more importantly I see most pro pitchers release slower/later after handbreak and seemingly go straight up & out to mid 3b line with palm down… “post it” & then swivel at foot plant.

Lotta semantics here & I’m cloudy on the matter… hopefully that all makes sense. I think wjere I struggle is understanding the action from handbreak to where they stablize prior to foot plant swivel.

First of all, I sincerely apologize for not making my original posting clear. It was pointed out to me later, AFTER I hit the send key, how I much detail I left out. (I’ve been doing a lot of that lately) Again, I apologize.

Not necessarily, it’s just that the human body works a little better when its positioned in a certain way to take advantage of its own mechanical advantage - joints, muscles, tension spots, etc., PRIOR to making other movements.

Take for example the youngster below. Notice how he sets up with his arms raised just a bit more than the youngster in the video. Although he’s not “loading” up, he is setting his upper body - shoulder platform in particular, to accept more demands of stress, better than if his arms were down, as is the case in your video.

Another suggestion is that as your youngster makes it to an sloped surface, his downward move will force his natural instincts of balance and other priorities to kick in. With repeated familiarity to this surface, a signature to his movement will start to smooth out much of what’s been advise here. This young man has a lot of natural athletic ability that’ll help him in that regard.

Finally, Roger is the go-to man for this kind of thing - he’s been at this a while and he’s one of the best that I’ve read, ANYWHERE. I would consult with him every chance you get. Roger is sincere in his craft as he is trustworthy. After all, we’re talking about your son. Things don’t get more personal than that.

Best wishes with your son’s baseball experience.

Coach B.

Thx Coach B:

Confusion was on my end… I was out thinking myself. The pic nailed it… thats the position I want, but I needed confirmation on the feeling & a better way to describe it to my son & his coach.

We’ll see what they come up with, but basically getting up and out front with the GS vs spreading “angel wings”.

We do mostly flat ground because of access & I’ve heard its less stressful.

We have access to indoor mound anytime, just a longer drive. Whats a good in season flat ground/mound ratio? They rarely get mounds in games… not til next year will we consistently get to play with legit mounds.

We throw 2-4 times a week in season outside of game action. Half those days are just gettin loose & a little long toss.

The tuff part for those of us with 9-13 yr olds is making sure we arent crossing over throwing & workout programs that are really designed for the big boys who are more developed.

Thx again, the info & resources on this site have played an enormous part in Tylers development & health as a pitcher.

[quote=“12JTWilson”]Roger:

Im not sure if he’s a pull guy or not… I know his coach wants him “up/closed” at foot plant. We’ll see what he covers over the next couple of weeks & how he likes to get there. We’ve had a great relationship with him & its likely going to be his HS coach… hopefully he’s a chest to glove guy.[/quote]
Sounds reasonable. But I’m not sure what “up/closed” means. Well, I think I know what “closed” means but what does “up” mean? Is that a posture issue?

[quote]Without any instruction I’ve seen my son go from a natural chest to glove move (Maddux replica) at age 10 to last year getting into a tuck position. He was opening up early even as a chest to glover. He released closer to the plate w/ chest to glove from what i could see on film.

I’m an old school “tucker”… he may have picked it up from facing me while we throw?[/quote]
Kids definitely see more than we realize.

I never dictate arm paths. All I care about is that the arms get to an equal and opposite position as close to foot plant as possible. How they get there is personal style to me. In fact, they will adjust based on the timing they have to do their thing and that timing is dictated by the timing of the overall delivery establish by the lower half in getting the body moving. One other point… if you’re having to “stabilize till foot plant”, then you probably need to get yourself moving forward sooner and/or faster.

Sounds like you have a pretty good handle on things.

Again, don’t worry about how the hands get to where they want to go because as soon as you do, any change that affects timing will cause the arms to have to adjust.

Roger,

by “up/closed” i was referencing getting to the glove position in the pic Coach B provided. Ty’s first move is down and directly at home plate with the GS after hand break.

Am I correct in understanding that he should initially come out of hand break and take his glove up and more to the direction of 3B vs dropping and rising directly at home plate?

I believe that would put him in a better equal/opposite position & be closed at foot plant. He would be buying himslef 18"-24" of more rotation & shoulders being closed.

First, by “equal and opposite”, I’m talking about getting equal angles at the elbows and not much more. Look at the pitcher’s back arm and how far back it extends. I’d focus on getting the glove arm to extend forward the same amount. Getting away from pulling the glove is going to be a challenge.

Now, whether he extends the glove arm towards home plate or the 3B side will depend on other things. Ultimately, you’ll want to take into consideration things like stride direction, tempo, degree of hip and shoulder separation, etc. The goal will be to get his timing such that he squares up to the target at release.

Thx Gentlemen,

This helps clear it up in my mind… if I’m foggy I definitely cant help my son for when he’s not with his coach.

I know see the importance of “equal & opposite”… never really appreciated the impact it has on timing & squaring up to the target.

I gotta think as he gets stronger that will be easier to accomplish, but we can get started & also develop his understanding of keeping things “connected”.

:allgood:
That’s the key. The extra time it takes to extend the glove out front further is time the shoulders stay closed while the body tracks forward into foot plant.

Go to v1 home pro for free software. The upgrade is about $30.00. You son looks great. If you don’t have an understanding of equal and opposite elbows at foot strike I can send you a doc explaining it. His foot needs to stay closed longer before it plants glove hand foot that is. It is a small amount. Also more rotation with the glove hand leg to linear before it strikes . I could be wrong because I am not looking at the open side from 3 rd base .

that’d be great… we havent had a chance to get started on the tweaks Roger & Coach B were helping with. The document you have would be nice.

i really think he’ll make a lot of progress when he can stride closed up to foot contact & get to that key “equal and opposite” position.

much like golf, there are so many positions & timing areas of concern that it can be crazy. as in golf I believe you focus on the ground up & the beginning of the motion.

a good glove side should really take out some others issues… kill a few birds with one stone!

I have spent a lot of time on this site lately. Ellis probable has this somewhere also . Go to chris o leary then go to baseball clips and analysis. After this go to How Jeff Suppan throws a ball frame 78 is what it looks like equal and opposites. Lots of time the arm will be in the L position at this point . My experience with timing is if the mechanics and posture are proper the timing WILL line up. I have 11 kids on my team that are pitching this year and timing problems are minimal.

Tell your girl friend I had Josh in Yoga on Thru and it almost killed him.