Mechanics and Velocity


#1

Hello,

My son is currently a Junior. He’s 6’4"/170 with a smooth repeatable delivery. He had a really strong fall season for his tournament team. Lots of K’s. Very few walks, hits, and earned runs.

His biggest challenge seems to be gaining velocity. In the fall he was topping out at 82. During the off-season he did a fairly consistent long toss routine. He works out twice a week with a trainer doing mostly legs and core.

I catch for him regularly and it seems a few weeks ago he was definitely throwing harder. Yet the last couple of times we did bullpen he seemed to have lost momentum and is back down again.

He’s got a few video clips both regular and slow mo - http://www.youtube.com/user/jbahr1995#p/u

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you!


#2

It would seem that he’s reached the limit of velocity his arm can give. I looks like he does little loading and his bottom half is nearly passive. Combining a solid bottom half contribution to good top half mechs is usually “the last step”. Is he going to an instructor? There are some excellent drills that can lead to better sync between the 2 halves. He is close and you can see he has the desire…he also looks like he may have growth spurted…the body takes a couple of days to catch up…


#3

[quote=“FL2013Dad”]Hello,

My son is currently a Junior. He’s 6’4"/170 with a smooth repeatable delivery. He had a really strong fall season for his tournament team. Lots of K’s. Very few walks, hits, and earned runs.

His biggest challenge seems to be gaining velocity. In the fall he was topping out at 82. During the off-season he did a fairly consistent long toss routine. He works out twice a week with a trainer doing mostly legs and core.

I catch for him regularly and it seems a few weeks ago he was definitely throwing harder. Yet the last couple of times we did bullpen he seemed to have lost momentum and is back down again.

He’s got a few video clips both regular and slow mo - http://www.youtube.com/user/jbahr1995#p/u

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you![/quote]

  1. The first area I focus is upon is arm action, I like how his arm works.
  2. There is no substitute for tempo and intent to throw hard.
  3. I don’t see much intent to use his lower body or loading of the hips.
  4. If you want to enhance a skill it has to be measured and given immediate feedback.
  5. Get out the gun and try different things and see what he figures out. speeding up the tempo of the delivery as soon as the hands break will play a major role in increasing the velocity.
  6. The hips should be continously moving, speed up the core and the hands and upper body will speed up to catch up.

#4

He is ridiculously small. Has he considered gaining weight?


#5

You serious?


#6

He is 6’4" 170 lbs. Yes, I am serious. That is rail-thin for his height.

EDIT: On the run, but read this:

http://www.ericcressey.com/the-1-cause-of-inconsistent-pitching-velocity


#7

As for mechanics, I might get into it more later, but I mostly like how the lower half works. The torso works extremely poorly, though.


#8

“He is ridiculously small. Has he considered gaining weight?”

You must be ridiculously dim.

Of course he’s “considered” gaining weight. LOL. You’re comment makes it seem as though you think he’s chosen to be thin. Fact is he eats like a horse and works out with a trainer three times a week.

I’m all for critiques. Both positive and negative. I should have qualified my request for feedback to those who have a little tact.


#9

6’4" 170 is ridiculously small. Sorry you take offense to this. “Ridiculous” is not a negative term, just a surprised one.

Now, if you can get over what you THINK I was saying and what I’m ACTUALLY saying, he needs to gain weight. We are all beholden to the laws of thermodynamics, and if he’s “trying” to gain weight but isn’t, then he needs to eat a lot more.

As for being “dim,” you might be right. I don’t know much about how to train baseball pitchers, so I won’t be giving you any more advice since you clearly know a lot more than me and the OB org I work for.


#10

“so I won’t be giving you any more advice since you clearly know a lot more than me and the OB org I work for.”

Good.


#11

Has he had a recent growth spurt?
Come on guys a small misunderstanding doesn’t necessitate name calling.
I agree with Kyle that the kid is in need of pounds on the bones, apparently so does dad…lets not pre-concieve here.
Word choice is a subjective thing and uni-dimensional on a forum (If all text).
Going to a trainer is great and having a nutrition plan is essential. Your son “can” gain weight…if a proper plan is put in place and followed through on…we’re coming close to the new season and don’t want to advocate for empty pounds for the sake of it…he is currently conditioned for the body type he has…adding weight will have some effect on his delivery…we don’t want surprises…the good news is he is a Jr. and will have a full summer of conditioning to look forward to…he’ll slap on some good mass then.

I’m interested in Kyles comment about liking the bottom half…thats where I’m scratching my head and would like to hear why he likes how the bottom half works…as I am just not seeing efficient usage.


#12

I’m not wasting any more time on someone who takes offense because he can’t properly read, sorry jd.

To the OP: Here’s a thought: When you disparage people who work in OB and post videos of your son on the Internet, believe me that people in OB will find them if it comes time for your son to play in OB. Food for thought.


#13

FL2013Dad, might want to tone down you attitude a little, kyleb’s first comment was “He is ridiculously small. Has he considered gaining weight?” this wasn’t disrespectful he was just putting things into perspective, his comment was probably directed toward someone who didn’t realize how much weight your son needs to gain to do the things you are asking of him. There are many players that go from HS to college that their first “job” in becoming a college baseball player is to gain muscle. If you would take some time and read kyleb’s other posts he is a strength and conditioning professional. If you wouldn’t have been such an ass you might have gotten some (free) advice from him. Calling someone “dim” on a site that gives free advice…kinda dim as far as I can see.


#14

Now I am laughing. Pitching and satire; tastes great!

Kid looks pretty decent, could (should) gain some (lean body) weight, and listen to the people that are paid to know this.

My advice. -


#15

My perspective on what I’d hope to gain by posting here:

A thread of posts I can could print off and share with my son to encourage him to continue to work hard and move in the right directions.

I’m not going to do that if I think the feedback is worded in such an insensitive manner as to make him feel bad.

“Ridiculously small” is disparaging and an unprofessional approach to giving someone feedback. If that’s the way that Kyleb approaches his work, I’d be surprised if he has any clients.

Obviously he needs to gain weight. And that will come a lot easier once he stops growing vertically. He’s only 16. Unfortunately (or fortunately) depending on how you look at it, some boys don’t physically mature until their 20’s. And In some cases it doesn’t matter how many calories or how much protein you put into them, they burn it.

Having said that I do appreciate any and all feedback that I can show my son.

Thanks.


#16

Fl…think wry humor…Kyle wasn’t bagging on the kid and I bet your son would see that…what happened was we froze up at the phrase…things like that do happen to newer posters on occasion. You post over on HSBBWeb don’t you? I think I’ve seen you over there…if not someone snatched your name and used it :lol: .
What I hope you can take away is that, we as a rule…and I mean this with all sincereity…are much much lighter in spirit than the majority of forums…most of the posters are exactly like you and just want to help kids (Theirs or someone elses)…folks are passionate about the art and take the advice they give to heart. Sometimes in order to break ice or bring out a point someone will make a quip such as Kyle did…of course Captain Obvious was at work (Note I’ve asked several times about growth spurt)…we all saw he was lean and needing mass…It just gets real cliche’ to say the same “gain weight” stuff…so this time it was said in a satirical tongue in cheek way…much as someone might ask him “how the weather is up there”, which isn’t necessarily bagging on a tall guy…yet some do take offense.

Any way lets let the dog lay and move on, I would recommend you going into the Workouts and Nutrition Forum…many have posted outstanding approaches to adding mass…but please do let my word of caution about just slapping on the weight, be in your mind…no need to throw him off kilter going into the season.


#17

OK look. I can fully understand how the typed word can be misconstrued. It’s difficult to communicate innuendo, slang and lingo…

I’m an old guy. So to me “ridiculous” has negative overtones. If I took it in the wrong spirit (and it seems that I did) than I guess I owe Kyle an apology.

Bottom line is, my son has had a lot of success on the mound this past year both in high school and tournament ball and I’m trying to communicate to him that if he’s serious about taking it to the next level he’s got some work to do both physically and mechanically. He loves the sport. At this point he sees himself as more of an expert than his Dad. So feedback from other sources is important.

I do appreciate any and all suggestions. Some say they like his lower half some say they don’t. At this point I’d say I’m hearing a common theme regarding how he floats down the mound instead of leading with his lower half.


#18

I did go and see what was written on HSBBWeb and found the analysis similar…At least BOF is on the same page.
Actually Kyle was the only poster who liked the bottom half involvement…which was why I was trying to drag it out of him 8)

I see it as the need to join the 2, top and bottom, BOF said lead with the hips, I think we all see basically the same issue and call it different names.
Paul Nyman (You literally can’t say his name on HSBBWeb :lol: ) has a concept called “intent”, I’d suggest you look into it and introduce it to your boy.


#19

… of the beholder.

In other words no two people see the same thing. And what usually happens in these situations (asking for advice on the Internet) is a variety of opinions are posted and you must choose what you think makes sense. And what makes sense is what you’re most familiar with (are already predisposed to) and becomes a “circular” exercise.

That being said…

Your son, overall, has the basic throwing elements to build on ( 95% of the players I see do not have this foundation).

With respect to trying to give advice for improvement is virtually impossible to obtain anything meaningful from these postings (no offense intended to those who post it simply been my experience). And by meaningful I mean something that your son can translate into actual physical changes to his delivery.

What has been most successful for me in my attempts to help players Is a 4-step process.

First is to first ask them what high-level player (major-league) do they try to emulate? And if I agree with them I then begin a process of doing a side-by-side comparison of the player with their major-league counterpart.

this is extremely important because unless they have a visual image of what they need to look like (or think they should look like) it’s virtually impossible for them to initiate meaningful changes (my opinion).

So I would be curious as to who your son thinks he looks like ( major-league counterpart throwing wise).

Second is the analysis.

I have taken a quick look at some of his clips ( converted them to AVI and then looked at them frame by frame) and do have some “observations” which if I have time and based upon your response to my question regarding his emulation, I would be happy to share (again as time permits).

Third are the formulation of “cues” which can be used to initiate changes in mechanics determined by the video analysis.

And fourth is a continual process of going back to step number two (video analysis), comparing to see if changes are being made and then repeating the whole process over and over again.


#20

Nice Paul… (Fl, coachxj is Paul Nyman)
Maybe you can elaborate on Intent for him…

Or see the same thing and call it by a different name, phrase…cue.