Madison Bumgarner


#1

Hey MadBum made his Major League Debut on 9-6-09. He’s 20 and like 37 days or something like that. His velocity has dropped since drafted sitting in the 88 89 region, when he was once a guy that was projected to throw 100. I was just wondering if somebody could post some mechaniques and see if maybe it was a mechanical flaw that has occured, a injury or just plain fatigue for a young arm late in the season. thanks guys and its been days since ive been on!


#2

IMHO I would say fatigue


#3

from what I heard something going wrong with the shoulder can decrease velocity.

I looked at a video of him and his is not a north to south type pitcher, more east to west like a spinning top. When I say north to south I mean the angle his shoulders rotate, with N to S you get a good downward angle on your pitches. With E to W you can run into problems with flying open which can put a lot of stress on your throwing shoulder.

I big example of an E to W pitcher is Brandon Webb, which would explain his recent visit to the DL because of his shoulder. Look at the Last pic of Webb, his hand goes from that angle to all the way to the side.

What you want is an E-W-N-S Pitcher, a good example of this is tim lincecum:

Notice how his throwing shoulder is north and GS shoulder is south. His shoulders not only rotate E-W but also N-S

Now look at brandon webb:

His shoulders are level during stride, you don’t see any shoulder tilt which is what you want to be a E-W-N-S pitcher. As you can see he has a sidearm action because the level shoulders and horizontal rotation.

You want horizontal and vertical rotation of the shoulders.

Madison looks like has the E-W shoulder rotation…no doubt pitchers can pitch in the big leagues and be a heck of a pitcher for the short term, long term though they will be interupted by the DL.


#4

Sorry, I can’t disagree more with Tony. Randy Johnson was a pretty good pitcher, so was Greg Maddux.


#5

Maddux had shoulder tilt during his stride and you can clearly see he doesn’t rely only on horizontal rotation (like a spinning top).

There is another factor you can add to this: flying open, especially with guys that rotate with side to side action vs taking advantage of horizontal (side to side) and vertical (up and down) rotation. Brandon Webb’s front shoulder flies open putting stress on the throwing shoulder.

Randy Johnson doesn’t fly open, he keeps his his Glove stable in front of his center of gravity (Same Goes for Greg Maddux). Also, lets not forget how tall Randy Johnson is…his arms are very long and he doesn’t have to use nearly as much force as pitchers shorter than him.


#6

In this video, the guy points out Brandon Webb’s shoulder flying open.

He also points out the north to south type pitching.


#7

ofcourse there is going to be some shoulder tilt. Many, not nearly as much as lincecum. What you will find with most guys, like maddux, johnson, rivera etc., is that they keep their chin over there stride knee, or close to it. It’s very rare to see a pitcher like webb, who is so horizontal, and actually stays inside his front knee and inside the baseball, thus all the movement on his sinker.


#8

At what point in their delivery?? The Post, Stride, Landing or Arm Acceleration? I’m not saying it doesn’t, I see it over the front knee during arm acceleration.

on the page above, scroll down to #5 The Head…

If you look at the Head, Posing Leg and Stride Leg…You can think of it as a widening triangle with the head being the top of the triangle. During the stride the triangle gets wider with the head remaining at the top. One stride foot lands then everything tracks forward and over the lead leg.

see how his head, shoulders and chest are tracking forward and about to go over his front leg. His is more obvious because he throws across his body but even if he didn’t, that is what you want. This allows you to throw downward, you got that good downward angle of the ball coming in towards home plate.


#9

I don’t disagree a whole lot with what you’re saying Tony. You seem very wise with this discussion. However, your assumptions on the last Lincecum picture are hard to confirm considering the angle of the picture. I think there is some deception there.


#10

if you can pause at 00:18 (not exactly but a little later into 00:18) you can see how much he gets his head/shoulder and chest over the front leg. I just have to point out that he does it to the extreme.


#11

Here’s a little gif I had made of Bumgarner, figured I’d post it up here for you guys. Hope it helps.


#12

You know its a shame when these guys suffer premature injuries due to their unnecessary high stressful motions…they are obviously good enough to make it at a high level and they reach it there in the short term thinking they have it all right, then it catches up and they say “oh its an unnatural motion…injury can happen at anytime, I was a victim of that” What would be more intelligent and mature to take from that experience is figuring out if the reason why you got the injury, could of been prevented and if you have mechanics that puts unnecessary additional stress on the arm.

Pitching is a stressful action, but not as stressful as some guys make it… do to their unsafe delivery.

Let go of the ego and accept the process of learning.


#13

[quote=“tonyjh34”]You know its a shame when these guys suffer premature injuries due to their unnecessary high stressful motions…they are obviously good enough to make it at a high level and they reach it there in the short term thinking they have it all right, then it catches up and they say “oh its an unnatural motion…injury can happen at anytime, I was a victim of that” What would be more intelligent and mature to take from that experience is figuring out if the reason why you got the injury, could of been prevented and if you have mechanics that puts unnecessary additional stress on the arm.

Pitching is a stressful action, but not as stressful as some guys make it… do to their unsafe delivery.

Let go of the ego and accept the process of learning.[/quote]

Do you know how hard it is for some people to make complete overhauls in their delievery at the professional level?? You’re talking about guys that have thrown millions of pitches a specific way. You talk like it’s something easy to do, and something you’ve actually done yourself. Not to mention a professional believing somebody like yourself after they’ve had countless successes that have made them millions of dollars. Good Luck.


#14

Some just will never get it. It’s really not that hard to change it, if somebody really wanted to get something done they will find a way to get it done. No excuses, that’s weak.

But honestly other people need pitchers like him so new faces who deserve a shot, get it. Baseball careers, just like life, is survival of the fittest.

And think of this…what if the way Madison throws was all he knew…nobody tried to change it, nobody taught him any different. Kinda like somebody born and raised with no education, part of a gang or group that only describes life in their own eyes without showing them different perspectives. Instead of trying to understand things from a different view, they completely throw it out because it doesn’t work “your way”.

Then don’t be surprised if you never see anything good change.


#15

[quote=“tonyjh34”]Some just will never get it. It’s really not that hard to change it, if somebody really wanted to get something done they will find a way to get it done. No excuses, that’s weak.

[/quote]

This is just wrong. When you throw a certain way for 8+ years it is “really not that hard to change it”

It’s “extremely hard to change”

Now it would be easy to assume that you’re just a naive teenager who hasn’t really been playing competitively for more than HS but I would love to know what level of play you are at before I judge you based on the statement above.


#16

if somebody wants to get something done they will find a way to get it done. once you say “can’t” then you never will. the work might be hard but you can change habits. its not impossible.


#17

When a kid is throwing 95 and has $2 million invested in him, little changes are going to be made.

Pitching coaches in that case are not expected to make significant changes, and rightfully so.


#18

So does anyone with a low arm slot at injury risk?

What is north/south? Just throwing from a high arm slot?


#19

you go from saying its easy to its not impossible?


#20

Its ok if you don’t get it, players need guys who are high injury risks and do get injured.

I said what I have to say, I don’t need to keep repeating myself.