Look at my son pitching


#1

Hi guys, my son is 15 years old and has been having troulbe with control. So I did like allot of people said and got him on video.

http://media.putfile.com/LAUREN-046

if anyone wants to look at this and help out in anyway possible that would be greatly apreciated. thanks allot


#2

You need to also show him from the side and you need to have more frames to get valid opinions.

I’m not an expert but what I see looks pretty good. He may open up his shoulders a bit early but so does Clemens. I don’t see anything that should have a major impact on control. He leans a bit but his eyes stay on the target line so I don’t think that should have much impact on his control. It is possible he’s trying to throw with his shoulders and torso a bit too much and not letting his arm do it’s job. No firm suggestions, just some ideas that the experts can say yea or nay to.


#3

What I saw especially if you slow it down right before his stride foot lands his hips open leading to to foot landing open, needs to keep his front side shut and when his foot lands need to land sideways on ball of foot then pop hips and then rotate body through. In my opinion a lot of kids try to clear there hips because there afraid they won’t be able to get open so they start early.

Also is he on just one side of the plate? just inside or just outside?

Hope this helps. Hopefully Coach Ellis will reply to this.


#4

hes mostly on the inside and low on a righty. we have been trying to keep his hips closed more but then it seems he swings open instead of driving down threw when he does this.

keep it comin guys


#5

Generally, he looks quite good.

A couple of things I think I see…

  1. It looks like he may be jerking his head off the target slightly just as his shoulders start to turn. This seemed especially evident (but still quite subtle) in the second clip. See frame 17.23 where he’s looking down the 1B line (WINDOW > MOVIE INFO > CURRENT TIME).

  2. He seems to kick his glove-side foot out slightly (rather than just lifting it straight up), which might affect his balance.

  3. He may land slightly heel-first with his glove-side foot, which could cause some jarring if his glove-side knee isn’t soft. He might try landing with his glove-side foot flatter.

He does a GREAT job of rotating his hips well before his shoulders. I bet he can throw the he!! out of the ball.


#6

I know sometimes when you open early you block off our hips so you can’t get to the other side of the plate if you wanted too and him being lefty makes sense that it would be low and inside to righty. Coach Thurston who was coach Ellis’s pitching coach if i’m not mistaken. Says to stay shut try leading with your front hip or front hip bone just a suggestion. Other than that he looks good. Just trying to help. Good luck


#7

[quote=“shermanreed”]Hi guys, my son is 15 years old and has been having troulbe with control. So I did like allot of people said and got him on video.

http://media.putfile.com/LAUREN-046

if anyone wants to look at this and help out in anyway possible that would be greatly apreciated. thanks allot[/quote]

Would like to see him from the side, he looks pretty solid. He does go into footplant VERY nice but you may sit a little to early. sit a little into landing stay a little taller in the initial phase of your leg starting to go out towards the target. Kid looks like he has very good potential. Can you get a clip from the third base side of him as well as one form behind? Those would be very helpful. this kids a good looking young pitcher!


#8

Post a side clip from First Base side.

Looks good, he may be stalling on the top of his leg kick so a side clip can show this a bit better. Needs to have those hips heading towards home as soon as leg lifts from the dirt. Other than that he has a fluid motion. Also looks like he can throw a bit harder with more intent.


#9

I kind of agree. It does look to me like he may break his hands a little late, which may cause him to pause on his way to Home.

I disagree.

This can lead to rushing if the hands don’t break soon enough.


#10

Agreeing and adding…

I agree with CADad that his front shoulder may be opening a hair too soon and, to allow for better assessment, that you should also video him from the open side and from behind. I also agree with Chris that his kick may be a bit too far out and that he is landing a bit more on his heel than on the flat of his glove-side foot.

A few other suggestions…
His glove (and pitch grip) is open to the first base side which could allow a base coach to see the pitch selection and be able to tip off his hitter. While coaching the bases, I try to use anything a pitcher will give me to help my hitters and an “open” glove has at times “helped” our offense.

Standing a little “taller” in the delivery (a little less collapse of the back leg) will permit a higher release point. A little less collapse may also eliminate the slight heel-first landing since it probably will shorten his total stride distance.

Also, a small issue that has created a little control trouble for some of our pitchers is the east/west movement in the step-back (as opposed to using a more diagonal step back). Since the diagonal step permits a more north/south transition (keeping the body more in line with a backward/forward movement to the plate from beginning to finish) it solved some minor control problems for us.

I have no medical background but I’ll never forget what a doctor told me early in my coaching career when I inquired as to why one of my very BIG pitchers wasn’t able to throw very hard. Though a 15 or 16 year old boy may be big on the outside, the muscles/bones were still growing/developing on the inside and sometimes were not “equal” to the outside dimensions. In short, he was still literally growing “into” his body and, as a result, experiencing some difficulty (i.e. velocity, control) while the growth “adjustments” were taking place. This may also be the case with your son.

Lastly, while I agree (as others have stated in several posts) that your son looks very good, I think recording his delivery on video and posting it on this web site was smart of you to do. I’ve always believed that if a coach’s own education couldn’t provide him with an answer, he should never hesitate to “use” the knowledge/experience of those around him. Both he and his players would be better for it. Fortunately, this web site has some very gifted people who are always willing to lend a hand when asked…and as a dad who wants the best for his son, you did the right thing.

Good luck and keep us posted as to how his season goes.


#11

I disagree.

I think he is just fine with this.

You do want to open up you hip as late as possible, but you don’t want to land with the toe pointing anywhere but directly at the target.

However, the later you open your hips the better (but they still have to open before the glove-side foot lands).


#12

I was a little confused by the post suggesting to land on the ball of the foot with it still being closed. Typically, from my experience and seeing others, the foot turns at the last possible moment but it points to the RH batters box vice being closed.

This seems like it allows better rotation.

Isn’t the key keeping the torso closed while the hips have started to open with the toe pointing at the target?

I’m not sure landing closed allows the hips to explode.


#13

I agree.

In my opinion it is.

This creates tension in the muscles of the torso, which lets them then powerfully pull the shoulders around.

I agree.

In my opinion, you want the toe at least neutral (pointing at the target) when you land because you want the hips open at this point.


#14

I agree.

In my opinion it is.

This creates tension in the muscles of the torso, which lets them then powerfully pull the shoulders around.

If pitching is a ground based motion where as the pitchers feet produce force against the ground that initates action/momentum. Which is than transford upwards through a series of linear/rotational movements that form a kinetic chain, which sequencially transfers energy from one segmant to the next. [example: when playing dominos in the fashion where one puts them on side one infront of the other and equally spaced and then starts at one end by tipping the last domino into the next which creates a chain reaction. What if you took out a domino completely or even moved one which would create unequal space between it and the next one. It would change the whole temo/sync in the chain.] Just trying to convey the point which is if the prior is true, not so much the example, thats just to frame the thought, if the link theory is true which most bio people do conclude pitching is a kinetically linked event than how can you pull the shoulders open from underneath? Presuming ofcourse that the shoulders are actually above the torso anatomically. The torso drives the shoulder, in general could go further but the point has been made to relevance.

I agree.

In my opinion, you want the toe at least neutral (pointing at the target) when you land because you want the hips open at this point.[/quote]


#15

First of all, let me say “thank you” to everyone who has responded! Your help is not falling on deaf ears; believe me, my son and I will take all of the advice to heart.

One thing that we noticed was that my son isn’t pointing his glove toward the target very well; actually, when we tried this yesterday it seemed to help. Another thing that tends to happen is that he sometimes leaves the ball up in the strike zone - has a hard time hitting the low strike consistently.

We did also notice that his foot does swing out a bit and his stride toward the plate is slow. He does “dip” when he starts is delivery - needs to stay taller, and his landing foot isn’t soft, and if you look carefully you’ll notice that his glove side knee stiffens as he comes through.

I’ll post some more video from different angles so you guys can get a better look.


#16

I don’t see an inconsistency.

I think the motion starts from the bottom up.

The hips open which streches the muscles of the torso which then pulls the shoulders around. As the shoulders are coming around (and not before) the upper arm starts to internally rotate and the forearm flies out.

I don’t see any broken links in the chain.


#17

I guess I need to clarify if any body cares. As the stride begins The pitcher must keep hips closed until stride foot hits the ground. This is similar to stride of a hitter. In both cases the hips do not open until after the foot lands for max power. When the hips start to open before the foot lands the pitcher loses power and accuracy, similar to the hitter who opens up too soon and swings the bat using only his upper body. The Hips pop as foot lands causing upper body to rotate as pitch is made.(throwing with closed hips is key to velocity) Should the foot be open upon landing then hips will open too soon.As you stride out with your lead foot straight out in front of you, The foot will spin slightly to postion of target,this action will be naturally done not FORCED.(by opening shoulder or hips too soon). Landing on the inside of your foot or the ball of foot will help keep knee inside the foot and help keep hips closed until proper time. Sorry this was so long, was surprised that some were confused Thanks this is a great site.


#18

This isn’t anatomically possible.

If a RHP were to do this, he would land with his GS toe pointing at 3B.

I disagree.

If the hips open while the shoulders stay closed, this stretches and creates tension in the muscles of the torso which then allows them to powerfully pull the shoulders around. This is known as the Stretch-Shortening Cycle.

Landing on the inside of the GS foot can delay when the hips open, but the hips have to open as the weight is put on the GS foot.


#19

Chris,
Can you explain to me how to slow down the video and how to cause a certain clip to be still? Sorry for being so elementary, but I am brand new to this.

Sherman


#20

shermanreed

dm59 has some great video footage that I’m sure he’d be willing to send along to you. He sent me clips of Roger Clemens, Randy Johnson, Mariano Rivera, Billy Wagner, John Smoltz, Nolan Ryan, and Kevin Brown. They have been extremely informative and helpful to me and I think may be equally helpful to you as well, particularly as you watch the glove side foot of each pitcher land and then follow the leg’s progression in movement.

'Hope they help.