Long toss programs for increasing velocity

[quote]1) Nolan Ryan was reported to have been able to throw a softball 330 feet at age 16. I’ve heard this from a couple of sources, don’t know how credible it is.

  1. One specific player’s routine and success is not enough to prove or disprove any one training method. There are too many variables. Just because Nolan Ryan may or may not have thrown on a line doesn’t mean that is what works for everybody or that max long tossing is a waste of time. None of this contradicts what I’ve already said. [/quote]

You fail to watch the video and learn something from two great players, well Lanky I have the perfect video for you to watch where Nolan PERSONALLY says he never arc’d the ball for distances. Feel free to stop sounding condescending yourself, subliminally of course youre pretty slick, and post some credible sources to disclaim mine. Don’t see much research on pitchers pulling, except for dead lifting.

[quote]1) by this logic, none of us on this entire website are humble. We all create accounts so we can go share our own thoughts, opinions, questions and experiences with a online community. If that makes me vain so be it.

  1. again, this is an irrelevant comment to the debate[/quote]

well ok youre in vain, i believe that is a sin? ot is it vanity ?

[quote]1) interesting study, although it is irrelevant to this debate. Would be happy to discuss hip mobility on another thread.
2) No need to be condescending. This is about discussing ideas not talking down to people you know nothing about[/quote].

Oh you know something more? Please share and post some resources so its not just opinionated and biased.
I am sure its irrelevant, just make sure you aren’t rotating/hyperextending from your lumbatic region, as this will cause serious injury. Usually in most side arm throwers this happens frequently because of improper mechanics (randy Johnsons and hudsons lower back surgery). Knowledge is relevant my friend.

[quote] the abstract is too vague to help your case much. I would be interested in reading the entire study. Some questions

  1. 23-170% of MVIC is way too broad of a range to draw conclusions from. This essentially tells us nothing. It says that from max leg lift to follow through, there is anywhere from a minimal activation to a moderate activation of some of the lower body musculature. It doesn’t specify which muscles, which phases, etc. Which is why I would like to see the full study because the abstract does not provide any useful conclusions at all.

  2. let’s say, for example, that they found extremely high muscle activation in all 5 tested lower extremity muscles. What does this tell us? All it says is that in these 11 “highly skilled baseball pitchers” there was high muscle activation. Plenty of these studies use collegiate pitchers that throw 80 mph or less (i.e. demonstrating horribly inefficient mechanics). I would be hesitant to draw any conclusions from studies like this that don’t look at pitchers throwing at least 90 mph because otherwise you’re looking at less than efficient mechanics. [/quote]

I paid the few dollars to read this study so I understand what the legs need to do to produce force up the body. I mean how can you drive a car without knowing where the gas and the brake pedals are??

And again what you’ve seen is a nice opinion but not frankly relevant to the debate. Son, if you read the research instead of relying on your luck and your superior debating skills, you would find that pitchers land will more than their own body weight at front foot landing, how is power anything soft? i post documentation to prove my opinions so that means they are opinionated facts right?

[quote]1) your attitude is what has almost gotten you banned on this site before. Don’t be condescending and maybe people will “open their minds” to you.

  1. Blewett hasn’t said this, there is no need to try to muddy his reputation because you disagree with his “push-pull” ideas.

  2. Just because an athlete is 6’10" does not invalidate laflippin’s point, but if I was him I would have chosen somebody a little more normal sized to make a case for the “pull.” Bob Gibson perhaps? [/quote]

  3. My ability to be truthful has led me to being suspended from this site, as some new ideas are not as conventional as some members here. Most just go by “he say she say” or the person with the most posts

  4. I have our emails conversations, please don’t talk about things you don’t know about, I believe you told me this before.

  5. sorry but there is some serious force going on in his back leg before his upper body is cocked to throw the baseball, watch it in slower motion its probably too fast for regular eyes.

quite honestly im surprised you havent research everything you could. i guess it’s true people only hear what they want to hear. Or read in this case.

BTW pitchers do not hop or jump off the pound (ok bring up Jordan Waldon so i can prove another point to you) this is a rapid extension of the leg to front leg extension that pops the hips forward

Interesting stuff…

Lanky talks about himself a lot because he knows himself best. He can’t talk about anybody else because he doesn’t know anybody as well as they know himself. He can read my routine and watch me perform it and even preform it himself, but he’ll never have an understanding of how it works for ME, he can understand how it works for HIMSELF. In that case none of us here are humble because we all talk about ourself a lot, thats why we’re here. Considering he’s a D1 athlete for a damn good team, I personally give him a ton of respect and pay close attention to his post because he’s reached a level I only wish I achieved. There is no need to personally attack someone just because you don’t agree with his ideologies. He also studies Kinesiology, so he has a pretty good idea of how the human body works. I agree completely with lanky, care to personally attack me?

Lanky talks about himself a lot because he knows himself best. He can’t talk about anybody else because he doesn’t know anybody as well as they know himself. He can read my routine and watch me perform it and even preform it himself, but he’ll never have an understanding of how it works for ME, he can understand how it works for HIMSELF. In that case none of us here are humble because we all talk about ourself a lot, thats why we’re here. Considering he’s a D1 athlete for a damn good team, I personally give him a ton of respect and pay close attention to his post because he’s reached a level I only wish I achieved. There is no need to personally attack someone just because you don’t agree with his ideologies. He also studies Kinesiology, so he has a pretty good idea of how the human body works. I agree completely with lanky, care to personally attack me?[/quote]

yeah, there are 300,000 college athletes, how many go pro, actually how many suffer serious injury that ends their ability to preform at the next level? theres been plenty of players who didnt go to D1 who became great pro athletes.

personally, he attacked me as well so i guess youre going to call that self defense now? sounds like the zimmerman trials over here.

Please enlighten me on how he attacked you? I seemed to have overlooked that issue.

overlooked ? or just not doing the research

You still haven’t showed me where/when he attacked you. And I have done my research and I don’t see anything that I would take offense too or consider an attack.

Back onto a discussion about the subject (or kind of off subject but became a side subject)

Lanky, I saw the idea of pulling off the rubber. How does one going about doing this effectively? Or do you have any links to any of Blewetts articles about the subject?

he implies im condenscending when all i did was establish terminology. i didnt call anyone out or used derogatory terms on anyone… he just assumed, and decided cause he has such great pull around here, i was being a jerk because he knows i have good points because there is plenty of research to back up my opinions where you guys just go by the next Fad which now is pulling off the rubber (which in physics, is not all that is happening, and if you think Chapman has a 7.5 ft stride cause he just pulled his hips then i can just shake my head and leave it at that) in a couple years it will be pushing off the rubber

I never implied I agreed to the validity about “pulling” off the rubber. I have no views on it, hence why I asked for links to articles and how it can be done. I can make judgements after I try it for myself, just like personally I don’t agree with long tossing on a line because it didn’t work for me, but long tossing on an arc and airing it out then pulling down worked for me. All about how it works for the individual. Same with pitching mechanics, what may work for someone else doesn’t mean it works for me. I can’t throw like Bauer or Lincecum and I can almost guarantee they can’t pitch like Chad Bradford.

I do applogize for jumping at you, as the posting on this subject fermented in my mind throughout the day I remembered that ideas work differently for different people (like I said in my first post here). So I apologize to you Drewski.

it’s all good man just pitchers trying to be good throwers, debating mechanics is like debating religion. nice to meet ya !

it’s all good man just pitchers trying to be good throwers, debating mechanics is like debating religion. nice to meet ya !

blewett said it best here, he doesnt know

mainly a reason for this is he hasnt studied high velocity throwers to detail

he talks about the front side pulling everything through, however he lands with his hips closed, if you look at any high velocity thrower with longevity they land hips fully or near fully opened to target, shoulders in line

hes right with an overactive hip flexor, but long strides come from the action of the back leg, how can lincecum/bauer/chapman/morrow/martienez/ryan have 100% or more stride length without some sort of aggressive movement from the back leg

if you watch the end of the video, he talks about “kicking sand back” he basically contradicts his pulling theory because the only way to kick sand back is to push your leg into the sand and kick up

Just out of curiosity, where do you get your studies from? Are they just internet searches for the subject?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/

National Center for Biotechnology Information… basically they use expensive hi-tech equipment and a fairly large population to test biomechanics and kinetics

much better source of info than Dick Mills… even NPA has used certain devices to detect where forces are being directed

No doubt!

No doubt![/quote]

well this is my point about the pulling theory, it would be extremely hard to pull your hips open before front foot settles… its easier and more powerful to push the back leg and hip forward while the front leg pushes the front hip backwards, thus creating a very torqueful rotation