havent posted for a while, been playing in a diff town and haven’t relaly been thrown in till pitch untill this weekend when i got a save opportunity.
cruising mid/low 80’s, touched 88 off a crowhop.
6’ 155 pounds.
first vid is fastball from the stretch, then 2nd is curve, third video is fastball from windup
any comments would be greatly appreciated, i would like to train hard over the winter gain some size and hopefully get a NCAA scholy for the year after.
havent posted for a while, been playing in a diff town and haven’t relaly been thrown in till pitch untill this weekend when i got a save opportunity.
anyone got some oppinons on this? good, bad, i want to hear it lol
Not too bad, the only thing I would say is that your arm is coming forward a bit early, before your leg is stiffened. try to keep it back until the leg drives the hips or stiffen the front leg earlier. The thing with pitching is that when you are doing it correctly, you don’t feel like you are even trying to throw hard when you are lighting up the gun. You know you got it right when you can remain relaxed in motion and use your legs to throw. The secret is, to keep your arm back and let the legs do the throwing. Look at an infielder like Adrian Beltre, or and outfielder with a really strong arm, they leave that arm back and the legs drive it through. your release needs to be in tune with the front leg stiffening, I am suggesting letting it hang back a bit longer until the front leg stiffens. You’ll find this to be helpful and improve your velocity. You absorb the front leg in delivery and when it finally drives the hips, the pitch is being released. It should be the front leg already stiff and dictating the release. So either stiffen the leg earlier or leave the arm back longer.
Hope this helps
I’ve looked and yesterday couldn’t get the 1st 2 to load, the third loaded but being only one pitch it is difficult to really make much out of it.
I read over on BBfev your same post…I try very hard particularly on regular posters not to let things go with no comment.
I saw you mention what a pita it is to download to YouTube…brother I feel ya!
My suggestions to help get you a better look without the pain that goes with it, try to get a sequence of pitches, stay with game vid if you can. Keep it under 2 minutes…I have to guess you’re doing it on a dial-up connect (I’ve uploaded on a dial-up… :nosleep: :pullinghair: ).
As for gaining velo…if you can go 88 on a crow-hop…it’s in the tank.
Items that I know that will develop a bit more speed…
Work to get the bottom half more in tuned and a part of your delivery (You see Roger comment all the time on getting the hips moving…momentum…properly applied is a big helper…see your comment about 88 from the crow-hop ).
Get more core strength…
Build some “smart” muscle mass…in other words don’t get fat, but get some weight on your bones…155 is a fairly light base to deal at those speeds.
I find generally…and actually have never seen it disproved…When you get into the 80’s, you’ve pretty much reached the limit the body imposes for “arm” only pitching (Pitching without the benefit of lower body assist).
Think about that…
I don’t know if you’ve seen any of my son in the vids that I’ve posted…he gets a pretty decent amount of lower body interaction (Enough to get out of the 80’s anyway). You may want to watch a couple of the slo-mo’s on my channel to see how he works from the start of his pen to “feel” the bottom half and get it going with the top…
And then you can go over to BBfev and tell them where it is a guy can go to get some pitchin help 8)
Hm, I don’t really see how he uses his legs that much more than me? I’m just not sure what to do. I really tried pushing off hard at practice last night and i hit 86 probably 5 out of the 10 times i really focused on it, but i was a bit more wild like that. What should I do to build more momentum and practice using my lower body more?
Well start with leg kick, he loads and drives, you lift and set down, he “sits” into delivery, you get your foot down and throw with your torso…look again…big differences if you are considering more velocity.
Now…do you really think it’ll be perfect the first time? You increased velo…that makes the point. Now you have to practice and build off of it. The reason for the wildness is that, likely you lost a bit of front side stability in concentrating on the lower portion…no surprise…I’d certainly be working on it on the pen. You’ll also find that the machinery within your body hasn’t used these areas so they will be weak at the start…build…I just want you to see and understand the techniques I’m talking about…it is seriously a thrill for me to see even the bit of velo increase you mentioned…(You almost made it to your crowhop velo ).
Now you can see and build on the important parts of getting into the 90’s
Think how ironic this statement is
…“I don’t really see how he uses his legs that much more than me? I’m just not sure what to do. I really tried pushing off hard at practice last night and i hit 86 probably 5 out of the 10 times i really focused on it”
You being skeptical didn’t stop the fact from happening when you applied it. I don’t look for the push so much as the load, use your hips and feel the loading of that back leg…the body HAS to release it, the tricky part is maintaining the front side so it can be done with accuracy.
The first thing I would fix would be your landing/bracing…
Notice how your landing leg never firms up; it actually collapses. When you are about to land, you need to firm up the entire leg and then brace it - which will usually straighten it. Think of riding a bike and slamming into a curb - you would fly over the handle bars, right? That’s what you are doing when you brace the front leg - it stops you abruptly and your upper body flies over the leg; this is where the transfer of energy takes place from the lower body to the upper body. As it is, you are losing quite a bit of this transfer. Notice how you also fly off to the 1st base side after your follow through. Compare that to jd’s son - he throws off a firmed up front leg and it doesn’t move after he completes the pitch.
When you do the right thing, all sorts of positive “other” aspects appear, the doc is hitting an important point…you can collapse or utilize lower unit driven momentum to allow the front leg to drive up and through the front leg by forcing the hips to rotate (Look at Stevens picture on the front of Tuff Cuff…he’s fully expended his momentum and velocity through his lower half, via the hips and reached full extension 8) …thats-a-whatta they likea to see my boy!!!) Another positive aspect is that you will be delivering at a higher velo more consistantly with less fatigue…all because you are letting some of the bigger more load bearing/work oriented muscles to do the velocity development stuff…putting it all in a motion towards the target and the top half is fulfilling the potential derived from the bottom (More like 9 out of 10 times hitting your max in a given session)…coupled with an excellent arm action and you’re into the 90’s, comfortably and with less injury potential in my opinion (Due to the delivery of the load being made more efficient in it’s execution).
JD what do you mean load? like when you say it’s so much the pushing off your worried about? Can you explain that better I don’t really understand.
Also, I thought some pitchers don’t fully extend their front leg, like roy oswalt and such [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnehldvI04Y&feature=related[/url| I’d say our finish is close to the same in some aspects.
A couple of things…
With regard to Oswalt; the biggest difference is in the back leg - look how Oswalt gets to pretty much full back leg extension. He’s low and long. Also, when he begins his delivery, his back leg is relatively straight with very little flexion at the knee. He drives forward by leading with his front hip and only when he is away from the rubber a bit does he flex the back knee and drives to the plate. In your case, you begin to flex your back knee right away and you never get the back leg to full extension. Because your body is not on “full stretch” you are not making full use of elastic energy and thus the transfer of energy from your lower body to your upper body. Also, it appears that your front leg straightens out into a leg swing (similar to Oswalt) but due to the swinging action, it causes you to fall off to the left. I am also not a big fan of landing with so much heel to toe action. I like it better than toe first but I think it is best to land with the entire foot at once (usually the heel touches down just a hair before the rest of the foot).
With regard to your bracing action, the biggest difference between jd’s son, Oswalt, and you is the angle of your leg when you brace; your knee is positioned too far forward - pretty much directly over your ankle. Now, it doesn’t continue to move forward past the ankle, which would be a complete collapsing, but your position is much less stable than Oswalt’s.
I rarely fall off to the left, but I see what you are saying. How should I work on changing this?
You may find that fixing one thing, changes another. IOW fixing the bottom half participation will bring about rotation in the hips and viola…falling off either goes away or dissipates to negligable…some things you don’t have to change. It’s why you hear me say…“first things first”…and other such repetitive cliche drivel but it is meaningful. As you learned in your first experiments with it, you lost a bit on the front side (Or whatever effected your accuracy) when “thinking” about the bottom half, this is what happens with adjusting…I am very careful when dealing in these velocities because very little can really make a big mess if your not measured. It also can get you doing things that can be injurious, things like; exaggerating or over-rotating or generating head violence…any number of things…it’s why having someone on the ground actually seeing you a couple of times a month and adjusting is very valuable at your stage of development…Without that, I really hesitate to push too much change your way…low to mid 80’s is competitive…Try to keep this in mind…improve an area, assess where you are at when you get there…if necessary, improve the next area, keep doing this until you’ve got your own methods as either a hi-level college pitcher or pro.
Now I spent a portion of my evening last night trying to figure out how to best describe the how to’s of it…everything I put down became long and confusing because of the different body actions and sequencing involved…
First let me say this…Oswalt ain’t you and you ain’t him…if you want instructions on how to copy, you’ve come to the wrong zoo. Once you’ve incorporated the bottom half and you start to manifest velocities beyond 90, you will look just like you…it is the only way it will work. You aren’t near the core strength/leg strength that Uncle Roy has, so to try to develop velocity in his unique way is likely counter-productive and possibly injurious…(And a huge waste of your precious training effort) this is what is nuts about copying mechs…I didn’t want you to copy my son…heck man you could be faster if you do the thing right, work hard and apply yourself.
I want you to get the idea…the cue, that the bottom half needs to get active…yes he pushes but as he pushes, he is causing tension (That elastic energy the Doc mentioned)…this is the “load”, from the wind-up he gets his knee up and back towards his back hip, this causes them to “function” or be put into muti-dimensional action (As they rotatate backward while being thrust forward)…think spring if you’d like (Guys like Tiant and Ted Lily exaggerate the “spring”). One way I’ve suggested as a means of the body “learning” bottom half participation is to drill as part of your side work with just the bottom going through the stages of delivery while not using your arms at all. You’ll be surprised at just how weak the un-used areas will be at first…
I hope this makes sense to you…We won’t leave ya though…this stuff needs to be dialogged as you learn so, get a tri-pod, film yourself, try to work through it…absolutely concentrate on arm care stuff (Band work…good conditioning)…you’ve had some success, focus and you’ll have more.
What I see -
You seem to truncate the rotation of your upper body (torso/shoulders) as you unload your arm (release the ball). Hence this makes your lower half (after footplant & on the follow through) use up a lot of the rotatation (which is not what you want).
Instead you want to transfer it up the chain to your upper half (you stepping over with your right leg on the follow through - i.e falling off - is ok, but I think you’re leaving a lot of that energy un-used in your legs).
Your plant leg is braced up fine, but you are leaking some of that energy transfer after footplant. You could probably try sitting a little deeper as you stride out (which may give you a slightly loinger stride). That may help you get a little more out of your lower half.
Overall you look pretty good. These are very minor things, but they may up translating into some significant gains if you “get it all right” so to say.
What do you mean, sit a little deeper? and I truncate my upper body?
Thanks a lot for the advice, I really wish I lived somewhere with an adequate pitching coach so I could see these methods up close, and get some solid teaching about it, but I’ll try to get some more videos up for you guys to analyze. I might not go serious into changing my mechanics right now, as I seem to have control of all 4 pitches and I’m pretty pretty good heat for midget baseball in Alberta and we have our provincial championships we need to win to go to Westerns this coming weekend.
JD, where does your son play?
He was playing for Indian River State in the vid, actually he was as sick as he could be in the vid…he had mono…didn’t know it and took the worst loss ever that very day Maimi-Dade :shock: …the illness got him to lose his scholly (dq’d on grades). So now his grades are back and he’s talking to 3 schools…he’s pitching this very minute for an adult league team here in Jacksonville…winning going into the 6th, when I had to leave because of my work…goin back now…He looked dominant and they still hadn’t figured him out.
[quote=“jdfromfla”]He was playing for Indian River State in the vid, actually he was as sick as he could be in the vid…he had mono…didn’t know it and took the worst loss ever that very day Maimi-Dade :shock: …the illness got him to lose his scholly (dq’d on grades). So now his grades are back and he’s talking to 3 schools…he’s pitching this very minute for an adult league team here in Jacksonville…winning going into the 6th, when I had to leave because of my work…goin back now…He looked dominant and they still hadn’t figured him out.[/quote] Ahh brutal. I thought he was going to Vanderbilt or something? I thought there was a post about that a while ago.
That’s juco right? or div 3? how hard does the average pitcher throw?
Do you have any links to sites with some good band excersizes and other conditioning things for my rotator cuff? my dad had to quit playing college ball when he was playing for UND because of his rotator cuff, I’d rather not be in that situation.
Well the illness was brutal…no a couple of my YouTube vids of him were from Vandy…at a tourney there (It was a warm-up to the World Wood Bat Championships in Atlanta).
Well the Florida State League is a bit…errr competitive for JUCO…It is considered the premier JUCO League in the nation most years…Every guy in the league could play for, likely start with the run of the mill D-1. They bring it…Andy was a bit on the hotside at 90/1 but thats up there in D-1 too…Mostly what happens is the Fla St League feeds the D-1’s when the guys get there associates…Ga. Southern and UNF have shown great interest in getting Andy when he gets his…possibly a bit of interest from Fla.
As far as conditioning book…look no further…Mr. Steven Ellis has imho the most comprehensive conditioning book you could purchase…and that is no kidding.
BTW FWIW I don’t think it a bad decision on your part to stand pat on your mechs for this minute…like I said at these velos…it’s best not to get excited and start going through changes…measured pronounced positive steps…good stuff kid!
Yeah, I’ll definitely look into buying tuff cuff. I’m not planing on changing anything as of right now. I might fool around a tiny bit just to see how it feels but I’m going to stay with my mechanics till the season is over.
One more question for you… it’s pretty tough to get noticed by a college living in Canada, UBC in vancouver has an NAIA program I believe so I might try to figure out something there, but my older brother lives in Florida and I’m going down in the winter to visit, would there be any showcases or anyway I could possibly pitch in front of a college coach or something? I am currently going to school here on a volleyball scholy but baseball is my love.
You bet there is and they take good pitchers all the time…no one ever has enough and like I said at your velo it is competitive. Where does he live and I’ll get you some names. Contact them and see if you can throw a pen for them when you come down.
NEVER EVER MESS WITH YOUR MECHS IN A CHANGING WAY IN SEASON!!! Good Call!
And the game last night??? CG win 7 k’s 1 er 8) He beat em down…it was the 2nd game of a double header, they had been run ruled in the first game so holding them to 1 earned was a nifty feat…wood bat leagues hate sinker ballers :mrgreen: 3 balls got lifted…2 pop-ups and a double on a change that was up and over…