Loading points


#1

Hi there, Dad to an 8 year old here, just found the forum.

I’ve been devouring youth pitching information since the spring, and having doctoral level training in clinical sciences, I’ve been learning and analyzing lots of pitching info out there from a strong biomechanical and physics perspective.

Theory I’m working on: How many loading (literal “wind up” or “move back to launch forward”) points there are in a decent pitch movement. I’d love to get some feedback.

I count 8 potential loading points myself. Some of them are rather small, but contribute to loading nonetheless:

  1. Stationary setup (if pitching from stretch) with stride foot slightly forward/closed off to home plate.
  2. Knee raise slightly back rather than straight up and out to side.
  3. Rear/stance leg flexion down after knee raise, combined with hip lead while holding stride foot back.
  4. Stride foot path in an arc, rather than straight out.
  5. Hand/glove break slightly toward closed side rather than straight toward home plate.
  6. Hip rotation/opening prior to shoulder rotation/opening.
  7. Scap load.
  8. Glove hand/shoulder tuck down and forward.

I believe all these movements are, or can be identifiable and effective loading movements, and I don’t yet see any major downside to any of these that would unravel or bleed power/speed from an otherwise good pitching movement.

Thoughts?

TIA


#2

Very detailed analysis.

I have found that, depending on the physical makeup and physical endowments - or lack there of, pitchers tend to move in ways that fit them historically. Some have a very elaborate choreography (like in your narration) while others are quick and without much of a statement. Others on the other hand defy logic and I use to wince at every move thinking to myself … get a stretcher ready for Rudy over there…

I like your breakdown, the continuity, and the way it flows.


#3

precisionchiro

“Hi there, Dad to an 8 year old here, just found the forum.”

With pitchers it is prudent to asses their biological age not his chronological age. He may be a late maturer by as much as 2.5 years. meaning his bone growth centers are that far behind an equated maturer. At this chronological age if he is an equated maturer the Epicondyle at the distal end of his Humerus shows up as translucent in an X-ray. It starts to solidify with white opaque hardened bone at 9 with just the tip of the elbow showing up as a dime sized solidified spot. the next year at ten it shows up as Nickel size, the next year as quarter sized and then at 12 the whole Epicondyle shows up as white hardened bone, this should tell you something!!!
At 13 the elbow growth centers start to close and solidify, by 16 all the growth centers are done and you can then consider aggressive “sport specific “ training, then.

“I’ve been devouring youth pitching information since the spring”

All the information that you have been collecting will lead you to the traditional centripedal pitching approach that has proven to be pathological at most joints because of it poor angles that have to be recovered from and disconnected Kinetic chain drive while shortening (concentric muscle action)at several points in the timeline. These problems are set up and exacerbated by the lengthening Kinetic chain employed by this approach when the Humerus is not yet in position to actually throw! The Humerus must be fully outwardly rotated (external shoulder rotation) before the linear (ball actually starts forwards progress) acceleration phase can start.

“having doctoral level training in clinical sciences”

The science by all but a few in this area is all anecdotal and driven by marketing and amount to surveys, not clinical science, so much for peer review!
There is only one place you can go where the practitioner actually has credentials in Kinesiology, sports exercise physiology and motor skill acquisition where his emphasis has been to eliminate pathomechanics. Go to DrMikeMarshall.com to protect your child and or others!

“I’ve been learning and analyzing lots of pitching info out there from a strong biomechanical and physics perspective.”

Yet, Newton is never their pitching Guru. At Marshall’s site Newton is who taught him how to pitch.

“Theory I’m working on: How many loading (literal “wind up” or “move back to launch forward”) points there are in a decent pitch movement. I’d love to get some feedback.”

In Kinesiology “loading” is known as lengthening and is that way because the word loading is meant to convey stretching that is not a part of what is actually going on, hope you can appreciate that?

“I count 8 potential loading points myself. Some of them are rather small, but contribute to loading nonetheless:”

There are 3 Kinetic chains

  1. The lengthening Kinetic chain or dropping in to the benchmark glove side foot plant. With the traditional approach when this occurs the Humerus is very late in Humeral/forearm arrival to full length to begin the first acceleration phase the (shortening) rotational acceleration phase.

  2. The shortening Kinetic chain, this is when both acceleration phases kick in, first the rotational acceleration phase and overlapped into the second acceleration phase the linear acceleration phase.

  3. the recovery deceleration phase where the muscles contract while eccentrically lengthening. to a defensive posture.

“1. Stationary setup (if pitching from stretch) with stride foot slightly forward/closed off to home plate.”

How would this be loading? opening up the glove side foot allows for complete rotational effect and allows the front leg to be the rotational anchor to earth. Closing it off eliminates hip/shoulder separation at the right moment. It’s also how we walk, trot and lightly run, known as the walking response that these pitching mechanics should be based on where the glove side leg is the primary mover.

“2. Knee raise slightly back rather than straight up and out to side.”

This would be loading to then lengthen, basically a wasted motion and not necessary to get lengthened and adds difficulty in efficiency by having to correct this added movement… This is where extra movements not only use energy not returned to the drive mechanic but also takes muscle action to recover from it’s poor angles caused by over early rotation.
This mechanic ensures you “splits stride” where the very small Tensor fasciae latae muscles on the sides of your legs are used to lengthen you, not the large muscles in your legs at the anterior and posterior of you legs.

“3. Rear/stance leg flexion down after knee raise, combined with hip lead while holding stride foot back.

None of this adds power later during the acceleration phase. It only leads you into lengthening at it’s particular timing that should be smooth and on time.

“4. Stride foot path in an arc, rather than straight out. Hand/glove break slightly toward closed side rather than straight toward home plate. “

Here is where Newton start’s to be disrespected and gateway pathomechanics start’s.

  1. Hip rotation/opening prior to shoulder rotation/opening.

This is a good thing if the mechanic you use can perform this right when the Humerus has attained previous full range of motion in outwards rotation, otherwise if your mechanic has your Humerus still inwardly rotated when your glove foot grabs ground this separation is then used to get the humerus outwardly rotated.

  1. Scap load.

The Scapula is a Hub bone, bones do not lengthen, Dr Marshall has identified this as a pathomechanic, causing later and early in the driveline Labrum degradation and destabilizing shoulder cavity laxity!

“7. Glove hand/shoulder tuck down and forward.”

This is the traditional bent back recovery that is plaguing Kershaw.
Many MLB pitchers are discovering that staying tall allows higher and further rotational abilities when driving the ball tall and recovering tall. This allows them to use the glove side leg to pull body rotation around more efficiently. better downwards plane.

“I believe all these movements are, or can be identifiable and effective loading movements”

It’s all ready been done by a competent researcher who actually applied his theories in an MLB atmosphere and university analytic setting. His discovery describes all the major pathologies produced by the traditional approach and it’s mitigatable counter mechanics.

“I don’t yet see any major downside to any of these that would unravel or bleed power/speed from an otherwise good pitching movement.”

Here is where learning Marshall’s tenets will improve your understanding of how poorly timed gateway arrivals can produce later in the timeline pathologies while driving the ball and recovering from this force application.

“Thoughts?”

Ethical alert !!

If you learn these tenets and like I did (then tested it on hundreds of youth throwers and pitchers) you find out all this info has great merit and eliminates all of the joint injuries while giving the participant an opportunity to then train more vigorously and “sport specifically”, no counts necessary in adults!

Then you would have to make this decision ?

Someone like you should go right to the original source, he’s looking for legitimate researchers who want to make a difference not a marketing advantage. E-mail alert! Dr. Marshall publishes every e-mail he receives.

later, Lon Fullmer