LLWS Crappola

13 yr olds? Throwing the equivlent of 104/5…
How come no one is objecting? I don’t get it. What is the benefit? Why isn’t anyone raising objections to this? At 46’ it’s just about unsafe…Kids this far into puberty and past it…heck they have a deeper voice than most grown men…they should be on 60’6" and against guys there physical equal or better…not a bunch of 12 yr olds who haven’t made puberty and just watch 3 strikes go by…(Even the game ones who don’t jump all the way into the bucket are so obviously over-matched it’s nuts…that Fonteneau kid has rung up 25k’s over 10 innings…it ain’t even entertaining). The stinkin coaches just roll out the 13 yr old and stand on the side and sleep…heck Tampa scored on basically walk and past balls…it has ceased being baseball and now it’s this kind of bizaar entertainment format…sorta like watchin a 5 th grade bully whoop up on 1st graders and take their lunch money… it’s a continuous train wreck …Well I’m done…can’t watch this sort of “reality TV” without getting nauseous…gag me with a hunk of rawhide. :cry: This used to be a great showcase of kids goin for it…now? Just sad.

why is it sad? ive seen the (umm cant remember team) kid throwin that equivalent and get beat on hits. ya there dominate but there still of age and ive seen some kids hit them. i mean are you gana be the one to tell those kids they cant play because there to good? my cousins 13 and is 6’1 every time i watch it i curse his dad for not lettin me teach him how to pitch. ya it does suck for the kids hitting but at the same time they need to adjust. and wasnt the 25ks pitcher painting? he woulda had to been otherwise he woulda exceeded the pitch count. like i said i saw the other kid get beat and it was because he was throwin balls right down the dick. just like in the majors with somone throwin 104, if they cant put it where they want it theyll get beat.

Your right it is unfair to have a kid throw 81 past kids with no body hair. Most of these pitchers have bad mechanics. Why don’t the coaches spend time to teach the kids the right way to block a plate,call a game (catcher), pitch using there legs, field a ball properly, catch a flyball, and identify a ball and a strike at bat. I always thought Little League was to learn the basics and have fun, and get everyone a chance to play. Not “Oh lets throw this kid in RF for an inning because we have to.” Let the kids have fun and enjoy themselfs. Don’t keep a pitcher in there just to rack up 12k’s put some bench kids into pitch to let them have fun. I don’t even watch it that much (maybe an inning or so), these kids on the bench feel left out because there not as good as the rest. Let them play, Its not about winning this early its about having fun and learning a new skill. This probably has nothing to do with what JD wrote. I just felt like ranting my thoughts.

I have to agree, it is not the same as it was a few years back. I guess they have changed the birth date like most of the other associations have but they should also change the field.

This is my son’s first year playing jr. high baseball, 11-13 year old kids.
The mound is 54 feet and bases are 80 feet. His summer team plays 48/70.

Your opinion is yours but lets just put it this way…how would this kid do at the right distance? Would he have to “pitch” or just whoop it past kids who physically aren’t his equal? Where in life do you get to be that much bigger and stronger and it’s considered anything but wrong…What honor is there for a college pitcher to throw to a High School freshman?
Painting? no he wasn’t…he got a wider zone but his control wasn’t anything to write home about…my point is that he is getting an artificial non-realistic perspective…the equivlent of that speed means a kid can literally get killed and what is the purpose here…It has NOTHING to do with developing the pitcher…it has to do with ratings, coaches egos and it unfortunately would seem to have much to do with a parents desire to watch their kid dominate kids they shouldn’t even be facing.

No I’m the one who is going to develop the kid to his potential for his own benefit…you can keep your cheap shots. This wasn’t happening before they changed the birthday date. It wasn’t done for the kids…you may not see it…it is your privledge…to me it’s wrong and sad and I said so…it’s called standing on principle

There you are in a nutshell, JD.

Even the knucklehead ex-major leaguer they have (have you ever heard anyone prattle on with so much negative commentary on 12 and 13 yo kids?) mentioned the fact that they’re getting way more kids throwing in the high 70’s this year than in past years.

When I played for my little league team in the 70’s (that’s 1970’s for you young guys) we had one guy who could move that ball past you so fast he could give you a hair cut (none of us shaved yet, another difference of the modern “Little League” player 8) ), and he must have been 5’10 or so. Every kid in the state was afraid of him. Back then , there were no inning or pitch limits. He got over pitched during that tournament, and never played again. Shame. But he was the only exception at that state tournament. Maybe there were others who didn’t make it past districts that we never saw.

The teams now that cart out 1 kid that is 6’ tall and throws in the mid to high 70’s are becoming uncompetitive against the new breed of 13 year old pitching monsters being trotted out like so many cogs in the baseball machine. Look at Hawaii. They won three years ago and have been in the sweet sixteen the last two…and they may win again this year. Something is wrong with this picture.

Now having said that, I have to disagree somewhat…and I say somewhat!..with Kaz. Personally, I am amazed at what these kids can do offensively and defensively. I played little league, and coached for years, and except for the Taiwanese teams from the 70’s, I’ve never saw anything close to it. Veeeery few dropped balls, booted grounders, or wild throws. If you expect them to play like high schoolers, your expectations are probably based on the wrong thing. The brand of baseball I’ve seen is not up to the last few years, but its close.

Its nothing like the Taiwan teams of 1971, '72, '73, and '74, though. They were just an unbelievable bunch. I saw a TV show about it way back when, and it had some interesting nuggets of info. The Taiwanese leagues illegally pulled players from different districts and leagues to fill out an all star team, then trained year round. There was a belief in some circles that the winners of the district tournaments would grab the best pitchers from their opponents as they went through the various tourneys. And the coaching was absolutely brutal. The coaches screamed at these kids on every mistake, and I wouldn’t doubt it if they went farther than just screaming at them. Made me sick. But I’ll bet they would give a good high school team a run for their money on a good day, and beat a lot of the weaker ones. They were that good. Look up the brackets on Wikipedia if you’re really interested. It tells a story all by itself.


cheapshots? where? its not like i was trying to argue with you i just gave my opinion.

jdfromla, you cannot hold their size and abilities against the kids. it is nothing they can control. plus you cant have all 13 year olds play from a regulation feild because many 13 year olds are simply not good enough

Jake…my misinterpreting a portion of your statement…my bad, I was wrong.
Righty, I’m not holding anything against anyone. Well yes I think they’ve ruined it by putting kids in there that should be pitching and playing from regulation distance…not 46’, I don’t see how this is assisting kids in any way. The problem is that kids aren’t the focus…it drives ratings for TV to have some kid stand there and blow pitches past kids, it makes a more dramatic story (They think). I hope all of those kids suceed, I just know it’ll all end in tears when some kid past puberty crunches some pre-pubescent kids face and we get to see the mothers face as her baby gets carted off…I won’t be watching. It doesn’t do justice to what it’s “supposed” to be…it’s making it artificial and warped.

I understand your point JD, but you can’t put these kids at 60’6". It’s sad but there are lots of high school players who can’t throw enough strikes, there is no way these little leaguers would throw strikes. Heck, their strike zone is already 28" wide. Let’s either change the birthdate, or move them back to 50’.

I think we forget that we are only seeing the elite of the elite at this age level. The average 12 or 13 year old is not nearly as good, and would not be able to compete at sixty feet.

jdfromfla you cannot arbitrarily decide to make a pitcher throw from 60 feet because he is to big or to good. for a little league coach that would have to make the decision would not know where to draw the line.

Who is being arbitrary? I’m saying that kids who are past puberty should not be pitching at 46’, I don’t make rules, nor obviously can I change them. I have only what my experience as to what is the best way to develop a kid…in my experience when a kid or kids are so dominant that their development ceases and starts to retrograde when not challenged…that is entirely my point. Fonteneau looks like hes going to be a great athlete, if he isn’t going up against worthy opponents his skills will not improve…k’ing 25 out of 30 isn’t competition its an exhibition and really not even fun to watch. I know it won’t change because of my observation. It is just that prior to this birthday date change, this sort of thing didn’t happen…we still got the likes of Mark McGuire and Gary Scheffield out of the LLWS. So as far as drawing the line, the line was moved…not by me…but by people more concerned with things other than developing the kid…I object…but it won’t change on that and I know it.

There will always be kids that can bring it…I’m more concerned about the % of breaking pitches thrown. 12U curveballs should be outlawed …

look at the 2nd paragraph.

I am 110% behind pitch counts AND more importantly mandatory rest in between outings. Personally, based on discussion I have had with MLB orthpedic’s, the curve ball is a key contributor to arm problems in youth baseball. Regardless, at a minimum … throwing a high % of breaking balls at an early age does nothing to help develop the most important pitch in baseball …


look at the 2nd paragraph.[/quote]

It doesn’t say who were the subjects of that study. Physically mature adults or little-leaguers?

This llws is kinda sad anymore, they should just move the mound back and get it over with, maybe if it was just to even 55 feet or somethin like that.

This is the official stated mission of LL, Inc:
.[quote]Little League Baseball, Incorporated is a non-profit organization whose mission is to “to promote, develop, supervise, and voluntarily assist in all lawful ways, the interest of those who will participate in Little League Baseball and Softball.”

Through proper guidance and exemplary leadership, the Little League program assists youth in developing the qualities of citizenship, discipline, teamwork and physical well-being. By espousing the virtues of character, courage and loyalty, the Little League Baseball and Softball program is designed to develop superior citizens rather than superior athletes.

If showcasing dominant pitching develops superior citizens then LL,Inc is meeting its self proclaimed mandate. Not to worry though, because of the mandatory pitch count none of them will ever hurt their arm and every one of them will someday be featured on a MLB five man rotation. I know mom and dad are counting on that. LL,Inc won’t worry because the television and radio revenue will already be collecting interest in their bank

I think that a lot of this is background. I know many kids who could play at this level, but don’t. One of my friends is a Lefty, 5-7, 150. Throws high 60s, great movement and control. I throw high 60s… topped out at 71, good control, good movement. A lot of it is if people notice the talent. I bet that there are 8 people here who could play at that level.