LL world series game last nite!


#1

Hi all,
I wanted to know your opinion, did anyone watch last nights LL game on espn- montana vs washington.
late in the game the montana manager changes pitchers. (THE MANAGER IS MIKED) he proceeds to tell his new pitcher to warm up and show only fastballs. then he say’s in the game to throw nothing but NASTY CURVEBALLS!!! I could not believe this. little league preaches pitch counts and day’s rest but has no problems with 12 yr olds throwing curves and managers advocating it. this guy should not be allowed to manage. am I wrong? I’ve seen in our little league org kids who have broken growth plates in their elbow from throwing curve balls.
it’s not worth it. just wanted to pass this along.
is there any stats on kids who throw curves too early. are many able to pitch by high school or are their arms shot.


#2

There are no hard and fast rules. While for most youngsters ages 12 and 13—that’s usually the age when they play Little League World Series—it’s too soon to start messing around with any kind of breaking pitch, there are exceptions—some kids can throw a curveball at 11 and have no problems. I was one of those; I discovered at age 11 that I had a natural sidearm delivery and a nice little curveball that came attached to it—go figure! And I had no problems. But most kids that age should stick to fastballs and changeups, and I for one am surprised that this kid’s coach didn’t tell him to mix in a change every so often.
Unless that coach himself didn’t know how to throw a changeup, let alone teach it. :lol:


#3

I watched the same game as well as East Texas vs West Texas. All of the pitchers throw curve balls. The losing pitcher in the Texas game gave up three homers off of fastballs ranging from 71 to 74. He needed the curve to keep the hitter honest. The winning pitcher appeared to throw more curves than FBs, and his FB looked to be in the low to mid 60s. At the LLWS level, curve rules.


#4

I know they’re all throwing curves. but at what cost, the arm health of these kids? it’s little league, not high school. just because a kid can throw a curve doesn’t mean he should. and for a coach to tell a pitcher to throw nothing but nasty curves is crazy. these kids won’t even be able to play JV high school because their arms are shot. it would be better to be able to throw a nasty circle change. it’s a shame.


#5

That is why as a parent I have taken it upon myself to be educated on what my kid shoud pitch, how many he should pitch and how much rest he needs. My kid is very baseball smart but it is up to me as to who he is going to play for, what their philosophies are and if those thoughts fit into that team and coaches mindset. My kid want to pitch in high school and college, he told me that at 10 so I found him a pitching coach (we tried 4) that knew what he was doing and I took time to understand what it takes for him to get there. It’s up to him to do the work but the parent should understand the dangers. These parents really need to read some of the articles on young pitching injuries both for throwing certain pitches the kids are not physically ready for and over use, I think over use is even more a danger than throwing curve balls.


#6

Ditto


#7

My son’s Minors LL team recently played in a regional tournament of state champions in West Virginia and the last team we played starting pitcher threw around 50 pitches, or which about 30 were curveballs. This was a 10 year old. Needless to say our batters were flabbergasted, and the other team won.


#8

I understand all your outrage…but ASMI failed to find a scientific reason to believe curveballs are worse than any other overuse issues. And ASMI is held in such high regard…their 2009 position statement fails to recommend a ban on curveballs in youth baseball. Rather than me paraphrasing and then being criticised for leaving this or that out…here it is verbatim.

http://www.asmi.org/asmiweb/position_statement.htm

What I take out of this is…some kids are physically developed enough, have the requisite neuromuscular control, and the proper coaching instruction to throw the curveball with good mechanics therefore without higher risk. So does Montana’s coach know something about his pitcher that we don’t?


#9

[quote=“Dino”]I understand all your outrage…but ASMI failed to find a scientific reason to believe curveballs are worse than any other overuse issues. And ASMI is held in such high regard…their 2009 position statement fails to recommend a ban on curveballs in youth baseball. Rather than me paraphrasing and then being criticised for leaving this or that out…here it is verbatim.

http://www.asmi.org/asmiweb/position_statement.htm

What I take out of this is…some kids are physically developed enough, have the requisite neuromuscular control, and the proper coaching instruction to throw the curveball with good mechanics therefore without higher risk. So does Montana’s coach know something about his pitcher that we don’t?[/quote]

Watching Georgia and Florida play this evening, the use of the curve seemed appropriate under the circumstances. These kids have great coaching and mechanics. My 10U age son did wonder why all of the pitchers threw the curve with regularity, and was enthralled with its beauty. The starter for Georgia steadily threw 75 to 76 mph(topping out at 77) and added a 56 MPH curve. He was brilliant. All six of the Florida pitchers had solid mechanics. Congrats to these kids and their coaches.


#10

The medical article below is a “must read” for all youth baseball coaches and especially parents of youth pitchers.

Don’t let the “medical” scare you - it’s an easy read.

Also, you may recognise one of the authors, James R. Andrews, MD, as Brett Favre’s orthopedic surgeon.

“Prevention of Arm Injury in Youth Baseball Pitchers”, J. La. State Med. Soc., Vol. 160, March/April 2008, by Edmund Kenneth Kerut, MD, FACC; Denise Goodfellow Kerut, MD, FAAP; Glenn S. Fleisig, PhD; and James R. Andrews, MD

http://www.abe.msstate.edu/Tools/baseball/articles/Prevention%20of%20Arm%20Injury%20in%20Youth%20Baseball%20Pitchers.pdf


#11

The NPA’s position is that it is ok for young kids to throw curves as long as they do so with proper technique AND they limit the number thrown to about 20-25% of their pitch total pitch count.

What you have to understand is that even a properly-thrown curve is still a little harder on the arm due to two things: (1) as the upper arm (humerus) internally rotates, the supinated hand/wrist position resists and creates a torque in the elbow, (2) after ball release the hand/wrist pronate creating a more abrupt change in direction from supination to pronation.

The last thing I would point out is the difficulty in verifying a kid is using proper technique. The throwing arm goes from external rotation to internal rotation so fast that it is diffiult - if not impossible - for the naked eye to see what the pitcher is doing. So allowing young pitchers to throw curves without being able to verify they’re throwing them properly is a bit of a gamble. Now, if you have high speed video capability, then you CAN verify things.


#12

I was only outraged that we didnt win :slight_smile:


#13

A also watched Saturday’s, Washington 13 - Idaho 3. Washington’s pitcher threw what seemed to be a 50-50 split between FB and curve. We’ll see more of this next week in Williamsburg.

Dare to say, the announcer was encouraged the curve :?


#14

My son was in Pony Pinto tournament play this year (8u). I saw 2 pitchers “trying” to throw curve balls. You know the coaches were behind it because the coaches were calling pitches. :frowning:


#15

8 and under?

Curve balls?

That’s insane.

That’s what happens when you have over-the-hill coaches subconsciously trying to advance their failed baseball careers through children.


#16

I look foward to watching the LLWS every year, but I cannot understand why this organization who is suppose to have safety of the players come first allow curve balls. Sure, they have pop up bases to cut down ankle injuries and the pitch counts would be ok if they weren’t throwing the curve. Don’t tell me that if a curve ball is thrown correctly that it is safe for these young kids, that’s B.S.


#17

What is the basis for your statement? Look at my current post on the General Forum;

http://letstalkpitching.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=13953

Making a statement like that is fine, just bring what info you have to the table with it. Many other issues are at play and the more issues that are included, the more it can be fleshed out.