"Legendary Nolan Ryan"

Alright, we all know about the greatness and “aura” surrounding Nolan. All the no-hitters, all the strikeouts, the great fastball for years, and a hammer for a curveball. A true power pitchers mentality and a hall of famer.

With all that said… There are several people on here that consider Ryan’s mechanics some of the best, stating that he was extremely durable and threw over 90 mph well into his fourties. All great points. NOW, on the flip side, when people say that someone has good mechanics, shouldn’t they also have good command? Makes sense right? Well, Nolan walked over a hundred batters 10!!! times in his career. He actually walked over 200 in two different seasons. He finished his career with 5,386 IP with 2795 BB’s. That is over one every two innings of work! A very high number for any starting pitcher.

To put this in a little perspective… Nolan has 2795 career walks, Steve Charlton is second at 1,833! He has also walked the most guys in a single season (204) in the 20th century! Again, a little more perspective, Barry Zito leads the big leagues in walks with 102 this season.

So, let’s let the debate begin. If Nolan’s mechanics were so good, then why coudn’t he command the baseball better? Was he actually inconsistent with his mechanics? Was there a timing problem?

Again, I’m not taking away from a HOF career, but these are numbers people like to forget about. Post away!

I believe he has the most walks for his career but that doesn’t matter if he K’s everyone else :lol:

[quote]Well, Nolan walked over a hundred batters 10!!! times in his career. He actually walked over 200 in two different seasons. He finished his career with 5,386 IP with 2795 BB’s. That is over one every two innings of work! A very high number for any starting pitcher.
[/quote]

thats really only because he pitched longer than any other pitcher

you cant say he didnt have good mechanics when he pitched for 27 seasons with a 90 mph fastball
wow he walked a few guys but look at how many he struck out
i think he is the all time walks leader
but that is overshadowed by 7 no hitters, all time strikeouts leader, longevity of his career, blazing fastball

they have a reason to

GREATEST PITCHER ALL TIME

very interesting stuff hammer. if he had overpowering stuff and great mechanics why did he walk alot of people. futurekaz, please get rid of your quote after that post you just made, very contradicting. you cant argue with the success and longevity of his career though.

kelvin, a 2 to 1 K to walk isnt good. dont bring up that point when arguing how good he was.

ever thought about him being too good

benifit of the doubt
controlling a 100+ fastball and a curve that came close to 90 mph

2795 walks but 5,714 k’s (i think)
thats over a strikeout a inning

a 2:1 K to walk ratio is not good at all. lets be honest now he wasnt consistently around 100+ mph. he might have hit that acouple times in career but didnt sit there.

he sat around 96-98 consistantly into late innings

IP - 5386.0
k’s - 5714
walks - 2795
hitbypitch - 158
earned runs - 1911
wins - 324

more than twice as many k’s than walks
earned runs to innings pitched ratio

he is no doubt the GREATEST PITCHER OF ALL TIME

Well I don’t know…The Express was great…He didn’t take anyone to the promised land but niether did say a Fergusen Jenkins…take a minute and think about that guy…he had better than 20 wins in 8 consecutive seasons…with a team that with the exception of 1969 could win at a forefit…what determines great? Nolan had an outstanding career, his winning pct and era lifetime weren’t knock em dead or even HOF.
We all have our favorite pitchers, if Nolan is your choice, you have picked an all time great pitcher with an outstanding career, but he was human and fallable, not known for really any post season exploits…but he isn’t the only guy in the HOF not known for being great as a post season pitcher…we can’t all be a Bob Gibson or Josh Beckett or Andy Petite or Whitey Ford

Nolan Ryan Stats
Nolan Ryan was born on Friday, January 31, 1947, in Refugio, Texas. Ryan was 19 years old when he broke into the big leagues on September 11, 1966, with the New York Mets.
"(Nolan) Ryan’s the only guy who puts fear in me. Not because he could get me out, but because he could kill me. You just hoped to mix in a walk so you could have a good night and go 0-for-3." - Reggie Jackson

Biographical Data
Birth Name: Lynn Nolan Ryan
Nickname: The Ryan Express
Born On: 01-31-1947
Born In: Refugio, Texas
Zodiac: Aquarius
Died On: Still Living
Died In: Still Living
Cemetery: n/a
College: Alvin Community College
Bats: Right
Throws: Right
Height: 6-02
Weight: 195
First Game: 09-11-1966 (Age 19)
Last Game: 09-22-1993
Draft: 1965 : 10th Round (295th)

Nolan Ryan
Nolan Ryan Pitching Stats

Year Team G GS GF W L PCT ERA CG SHO SV IP BFP H ER R HR BB IBB SO WP HBP BK HLD
1966 Mets 2 1 0 0 1 .000 15.00 0 0 0 3.0 17 5 5 5 1 3 1 6 1 0 0 -
1968 Mets 21 18 1 6 9 .400 3.09 3 0 0 134.0 559 93 46 50 12 75 4 133 7 4 0 -
1969 Mets 25 10 4 6 3 .667 3.53 2 0 1 89.1 375 60 35 38 3 53 3 92 1 1 3 -
1970 Mets 27 19 4 7 11 .389 3.42 5 2 1 131.2 570 86 50 59 10 97 2 125 8 4 0 -
1971 Mets 30 26 1 10 14 .417 3.97 3 0 0 152.0 705 125 67 78 8 116 4 137 6 15 1 -
1972 Angels 39 39 0 19 16 .543 2.28 20 9 0 284.0 1,154 166 72 80 14 157 4 329 18 10 0 -
1973 Angels 41 39 2 21 16 .568 2.87 26 4 1 326.0 1,355 238 104 113 18 162 2 383 15 7 0 -
1974 Angels 42 41 1 22 16 .579 2.89 26 3 0 332.2 1,392 221 107 127 18 202 3 367 9 9 0 -
1975 Angels 28 28 0 14 12 .538 3.45 10 5 0 198.0 864 152 76 90 13 132 0 186 12 7 0 -
1976 Angels 39 39 0 17 18 .486 3.36 21 7 0 284.1 1,196 193 106 117 13 183 2 327 5 5 2 -
1977 Angels 37 37 0 19 16 .543 2.77 22 4 0 299.0 1,272 198 92 110 12 204 7 341 21 9 3 -
1978 Angels 31 31 0 10 13 .435 3.72 14 3 0 234.2 1,008 183 97 106 12 148 7 260 13 3 2 -
1979 Angels 34 34 0 16 14 .533 3.60 17 5 0 222.2 937 169 89 104 15 114 3 223 9 6 0 -
1980 Astros 35 35 0 11 10 .524 3.35 4 2 0 233.2 982 205 87 100 10 98 1 200 10 3 1 -
1981 Astros 21 21 0 11 5 .688 1.69 5 3 0 149.0 605 99 28 34 2 68 1 140 16 1 2 -
1982 Astros 35 35 0 16 12 .571 3.16 10 3 0 250.1 1,050 196 88 100 20 109 3 245 18 8 2 -
1983 Astros 29 29 0 14 9 .609 2.98 5 2 0 196.1 804 134 65 74 9 101 3 183 5 4 1 -
1984 Astros 30 30 0 12 11 .522 3.04 5 2 0 183.2 760 143 62 78 12 69 2 197 6 4 3 -
1985 Astros 35 35 0 10 12 .455 3.80 4 0 0 232.0 983 205 98 108 12 95 8 209 14 9 2 -
1986 Astros 30 30 0 12 8 .600 3.34 1 0 0 178.0 729 119 66 72 14 82 5 194 15 4 0 -
1987 Astros 34 34 0 8 16 .333 2.76 0 0 0 211.2 873 154 65 75 14 87 2 270 10 4 2 -
1988 Astros 33 33 0 12 11 .522 3.52 4 1 0 220.0 930 186 86 98 18 87 6 228 10 7 7 -
1989 Rangers 32 32 0 16 10 .615 3.20 6 2 0 239.1 988 162 85 96 17 98 3 301 19 9 1 -
1990 Rangers 30 30 0 13 9 .591 3.44 5 2 0 204.0 818 137 78 86 18 74 2 232 9 7 1 -
1991 Rangers 27 27 0 12 6 .667 2.91 2 2 0 173.0 683 102 56 58 12 72 0 203 8 5 0 -
1992 Rangers 27 27 0 5 9 .357 3.72 2 0 0 157.1 675 138 65 75 9 69 0 157 9 12 0 -
1993 Rangers 13 13 0 5 5 .500 4.88 0 0 0 66.1 291 54 36 47 5 40 0 46 3 1 0 -
Career G GS GF W L PCT ERA CG SHO SV IP BFP H ER R HR BB IBB SO WP HBP BK HLD
27 Years 807 773 13 324 292 .526 3.19 222 61 3 5,386.0 22,575 3,923 1,911 2,178 321 2,795 78 5,714 277 158 33 -

Nolan Ryan
Nolan Ryan Miscellaneous Items of Interest

Team [Click for Roster] Uniform Numbers Salary All-Star World Series
1966 New York Mets 34 Undetermined - -
1968 New York Mets 30 Undetermined - -
1969 New York Mets 30 Undetermined - Stats
1970 New York Mets 30 Undetermined - -
1971 New York Mets 30 $20,000.00 - -
1972 California Angels 30 $27,000.00 Stats -
1973 California Angels 30 Undetermined Stats -
1974 California Angels 30 Undetermined - -
1975 California Angels 30 Undetermined Stats -
1976 California Angels 30 $170,000.00 - -
1977 California Angels 30 $365,000.00 Stats -
1978 California Angels 30 Undetermined - -
1979 California Angels 30 $1,000,000.00 Stats -
1980 Houston Astros 34 Undetermined - -
1981 Houston Astros 34 Undetermined Stats -
1982 Houston Astros 34 Undetermined - -
1983 Houston Astros 34 Undetermined - -
1984 Houston Astros 34 Undetermined - -
1985 Houston Astros 34 $1,350,000.00 Stats -
1986 Houston Astros 34 $1,125,000.00 - -
1987 Houston Astros 34 $1,225,000.00 - -
1988 Houston Astros 34 $1,000,000.00 - -
1989 Texas Rangers 34 $1,800,000.00 Stats -
1990 Texas Rangers 34 $1,400,000.00 - -
1991 Texas Rangers 34 $3,300,000.00 - -
1992 Texas Rangers 34 $4,200,000.00 - -
1993 Texas Rangers 34 $3,757,000.00 - -
Nolan Ryan Stats by Baseball Almanac

ryan has alot of wins, but only won less than half his starts in career. i dont know about all the old time pitchers but recently i would have to say best pitcher is pedro martinez. forget about him with the mets though. career era under 3 and was so dominating with the red sox back in the middle of the steroid era. doesnt have alot of wins because he has less than 400 starts.

JD took it to a whole nother level nice 2 know that

he also loss in less than half or his starts
so that means he kept it close no decisions
more wins than losses

nolan ryan status but injury plagued
he could have been just as good

A strike out leader doesn’t exactly pitch to contact. If he ain’t striking batters out, he’s walking them.

Well said, Roger.

JD, Ryan won a couple of World Series games as a rookie for the miracle Mets in 1969, one as a starter and one in relief. He was overshadowed by another rookie future HOFer in Tom Seaver.

Ryan never again played for a championship team, and in fact (as was touched upon by other posters) played on some really horrid teams with no run support. He still got his wins, chiefly on his ability to dominate hitters.

On any given day, Ryan could throw the ball through a lineup and send them running for momma. Not only did he throw the record 7 no-no’s, but had twelve 1-hitters!

Here’s one last thought. Ryan couldn’t get away with a lot of pitches out of the strike zone. Some pitchers, like Maddox or Moyer, live on the edges and can get guys to fish at bad pitches. I don’t think Ryan had that gift.

This is a great question! Ultimately, my opinion is that there is no “perfect mechanics”, “best mechanics”, “safest mechanics”. There are those who are able to get the most from their talent, and those that can’t. What works for one may or may not work for another…anyone with experience learning a new skill can attest to this.

Nolan Ryan’s mechanics worked for him. I hope your mechanics work as well for you.

Hose

Roger and Hose are both right, but Hose – he didn’t need to paint the corners because he could just blow batters away and as you said, if he tried he would miss his spots. He wasn’t as you would say a control or finesse pitcher in the slightest. He lived off his fastball and curve blowing guys away or fooling them, not like a Maddux or Moyer who don’t and didn’t have any velocity.

This is a fun debate, good posting guys.

Kelv, if you think Nolan Ryan is the greatest of all time, you have to be a little dilusional, or you don’t know his numbers well.

He won just under 42% of his starts. To make a little comparison, Maddux has won 48% of his starts, and is 130 games above .500 in his career. Nolan Ryan was 32 games above .500. Nolan Ryan has a 3.19 era with a 1.25 whip. Maddux career has a 3.14 era with a 1.14 whip. Greg Maddux has won 4 cy youngs, 4 straight at that, and Nolan Ryan has won ZERO. How is he the greatest, when he was never the best pitcher in the league at any time? Nolan is nowhere near a Maddux level, or a Clemens or Randy Johnson for that matter. He’s probably not in the top 5, maybe not even the top ten.

I recognize the Miracle Mets scenario…another guy named Koosman had a part of it also…my point was that some truely greats lifted their team past mediocrity…some rode the wave (Like Petite…though when the chips were down he always showed up). I guess I’m trying to say, don’t get me wrong, Nolan was one of the greatests, cases can be made for each individual persons preference as to who was THE Greatest…I think that Maddux should be in that box because everything he did was in an era where every single advantage was given and is given to the hitter, I also think that Gibson fits into the box because he had the entire rules of the game changed because of his dominance, I also think that Sandy K should be in there also…and so it goes…no I watched the Express in his prime, nobodies ever gonna tell me he wasn’t one of the best ever to strap on a jock…it smelled like brimstone around the plate when he let the smoke loose (So I hear), it is a great thing about our sport, the passion it draws from normally mello individuals 8) .

I think wins are a stat that don’t hold too much value. So much of the stat relies on the team around him and Ryan’s teams were not some of the most potent on the offensive side (and my idol Peavy can attest to that). Hammer does make a good point with the 42%, but I don’t think that Ryan is the greatest pitcher ever (even if it is for different reasons). He was great and I don’t think his 5,714 Ks will even come close to being touched, but there are just so many other great ones before him on my list.

And we named the pitcher’s award after someone named Cy Young for a reason eve if he did lose more games than anyone else. It was a different era, and pitching 18 innings in one day will never happen again. Young is baseball’s greatest pitcher ever IMO.

Absolutely. The Koos was arguably the best pitcher on that staff that year, though most have never heard of him. And I would never put Ryan at the top of the all time list of pitchers. I do think he is the most amazing pitcher I ever saw, regardless of win/loss or walk/K % and definitely belongs in that exclusive group of “the greatest”.

Who’s the best? Well, if you had to pick one pitcher from any time in the history of baseball to win one game with your life depending on the outcome, who would you pick? Would you pick the same guy if he needed to win a series for you? How about the World Series? How about if you needed him to strike out a batter to save your life? Or just to get him out, period? Who would you pick if you needed a perfect game? A no-hitter? How can you ever determine “the best” at a position that has so many objective criteria to ponder?

Hose

Awesome post Hose.

You brought up alot of questions at the end of your post.

To best answer all of them… I’ll take Sandy Koufax. Though his career ended short due to injury, while he pitched, there may have been nobody better and more dominating. He sure was something else.

How can you argue with a guy who went 4-1 against Bob Gibson?

All I can say is how would you have liked to bat on either side in those 5 games? :shock: bet there were some stains in embarressing places :nosleep: