Late forearm rotation

What’s the theory on this?

Does this lead to better extension?

Is the hand supposed to rotate with the shoulders? or is the forearm rotation forced?

I’m not really sure how to explain this, it may be a little confusing. My apologies.

[quote=“Hammer”]What’s the theory on this?

Does this lead to better extension?

Is the hand supposed to rotate with the shoulders? or is the forearm rotation forced?

I’m not really sure how to explain this, it may be a little confusing. My apologies.[/quote]

I’m not sure what you are referring to.

Can you explain what you are asking in the context of this clip and specific frames…

Sounds like he’s referring to external/internal rotation.

Sorry guys.

I’m referring to what’s happening from frame 29-32. Right before the internal rotation. The inside of the forearm is facing second base. I’m wondering if there is any benefits from delayed or late forearm rotation into internal rotation. Thanks.

“I’m wondering if there is any benefits from delayed or late forearm rotation into internal rotation”

Do you think you could conciously force the arm in that situation to wait (Kinda puts me in mind of throwing the change with the circle out front…I never could figure out how this was done without shoulder strain)?
Just trying to think about it, it would seem to throw added stress to the front-side of the shoulder if forced to that position…a purely laymens view.

Agreed Jd. Makes sense.

In another thread, somebody talked about the later the better with scap loading. I guess this would mean later forearm rotation? Would this not?
I’m just throwing a bunch of nonesense out there.

The “later the better” comment normally applies to situations where there are stretch-shortening cycles (SSC) involved. I really don’t think it applies to what you’ve described nor do you want to be focusing on trying to do that.

There’s nothing you can do to resist this process.

It happens as a result of the rapid rotation of the shoulders.

Thanks guys.

There’s nothing you can do to resist this process.

It happens as a result of the rapid rotation of the shoulders.[/quote]

Hmmm… I guess it’s still not clear whether Hammer is talking about external rotation or a pronation of the hand/forearm as in “showing the ball to 2B”. Chris seems to have interpretted it as the former and I the latter due to the “inside of the forearm is facing second base” description.

There’s nothing you can do to resist this process.

It happens as a result of the rapid rotation of the shoulders.[/quote]

Hmmm… I guess it’s still not clear whether Hammer is talking about external rotation or a pronation of the hand/forearm as in “showing the ball to 2B”. Chris seems to have interpretted it as the former and I the latter due to the “inside of the forearm is facing second base” description.[/quote]

Roger your correct. I was referring to “showing the ball to 2B”, thus as you stated the pronation of the forearm. Does it hinders one performance if you aren’t quite “showing the ball to 2b”? In other words, the more rotation the better?

Internal/external rotation is typically used in the context of the upper arm, which is why I was confused.

Showing the ball to 2B is a bad thing to do because it forces you to supinate through the release point, which increases the load on the UCL.

You’ll notice that at the high-cocked position (PAS forearm vertical) Verlander is showing the ball to 3B.

Showing the ball to 2B is an old, outdated teach IMHO. I prefer pitchers to adopt the most comfortable position and then not think about it. I believe the “show the ball to 2B” position is, for many, a forced position so, for many, it’s not the most comfortable position.

I agree Roger. I do believe, though, that the fear of the “pie throwing” issue has some basis in fact but it’s a matter of using “keeping the thumb down” cue to ensure that the arm isn’t externally rotating too early. That cue helps battle that but it can be taken too far.

If the pie throwing issue (which I’m no expert on) is caused by early external rotation (hmm, I’ll have to think about what that means), then wouldn’t there be a timing issue to fix? Wouldn’t keeping the thumb down be more like treating the symptom instead of the cause? School me on throwing pies. :chef:

I agree.

In most cases I think this is a no-teach, which will generally mean that you will show the ball to SS or 3B.

Juan Marichal was a pie thrower and he did OK.

I think pie throwing is over-rated as a flaw.

My use of the term “pie throwing” was not an invitation for a debate on its value. It was meant to describe a position only, in the context of this discussion. The “thumb down” cue is really a better focus in this. The whole point was about avoiding early external rotation. The same concept applies to the glove hand.

My use of the term “pie throwing” was not an invitation for a debate on its value. It was meant to describe a position only, in the context of this discussion. The “thumb down” cue is really a better focus in this. The whole point was about avoiding early external rotation. The same concept applies to the glove hand.

DM, help me out here. How does the rotational position of the hand/forearm affect the timing of external rotation? Wouldn’t early external rotation imply early shoulder rotation? What am I missing here?