Knuckle Curve, Curveball?


#1

Does anyone know reall besides grip, the difference between the Knuckle-Curve and the Curveball? I throw the Knuckle-Curve because I am more comfortable and also have more control over the pitch. But basically I get it to break just like a nice hard down and away curveball with a little tumbling movement.


#2

I think the k curve is better for your arm because you don’t have to yank down as hard to get rotation. Tlk to me on aim at jay21328


#3

actually, the real knuckle curve and the curveball are 2 completly different pitches.

here’s a real knuckle-curve

spike-curve

curveball


#4

what’s the difference between spike curve and curve then.


#5

spike curve is not what moose throws. he throws a curveball with a spike curve grip. a real spikecurve is hold like on the picture but thrown like a fastball and it acts like a slurve. that’s the pitch who’s easy on your arm. mussina olds it like a knuckle curve because he get more flick from that way. just like other like to put their index finger up or others like to have every fingers on the ball.


#6

I agree with 4pie on this one. Hooten’s curve was vastly different than a regular curve. You have to have the right anatomy to pull this off-long strong fingers & thumb.

I agree about Musina’s curve as well, this is just a curve ball variation. Ian


#7

I think that a real knuckle curve was held like a kind of like a knuckle ball and thrown like a curve. And it had alot of spin and lower speeds giving it alot of time to break. Mabey I’m wrong, mabey not. I think that the k-curve is easier to throw because you only have to roll the ball over 1 finger instead of 2.


#8

i just shown you what were the differences. a spike curve thrown like a curve is not more or less dangerous for your arm. what’s easy is when you grip it spike curve and throw it like a fastball. you get some left to right spin for a lefty and some right to left for a righty spin. just acts like a flat slurve that you might only use again batters from your side and you should only throw the pitch right to them and watch it go back in the strike zone because this pitch is really flat and sweeping.

a real knuckle curve is what burt hooton is holding on the playing card. he throws it with a fastball arm motion but push the ball with is fingers to get some top spin.


#9

You almost have to spin it off your thumb-you kinda roll it forward with your bent fingers creating over spin.

I wish Hooten had a site. As his pitch was very different and very effective. I would even pay to hear him talk about it.

Maybe Steve could run him down some day and get him to post how he threw it. He was the master!Ian.


#10

well in fact, i created this pitch before i heared burt hooton threw it so i know a lot about this pitch and it’s my main pitch. that was my own pitch since curveballs dont work for me. i can throw it from 3 different angles and make it move 4 different ways, one of them is supposed to break 2 times (which might seems impossible but at least it’s a good illusion since 3 people told me it seemed to be a screwball until it acts like a hard slider). i worked the grip and i ended up holding it a lot like hooton which i think is kind of wierd and cool at the same time. believe me, i’m close to hooton with that pitch and i’m not trying to take anything off of him since he had an amazing one.


#11

so you have the same risk getting hurt with a spike curve then as a curveball? or is it better to throw a spike curve for the arm?


#12

spike curve and curveball are 2 different pitches but if thrown like i told you, you should get less supination from your forearm and so the bones from your elbow won’t smash together as hard and that will help prevent injuries. but remember spike curves and curveballs are not doing the same movement. spike curve is sweeping and curves is droping. to get a drop without the violent snap of a cuvreball you should use the knuckle curve


#13

The curveball and the “spike curve” know as todays modern knuckle curve are pretty much the same. Easier and harder for some to throw, I throw the knuckle curve just like you would a curve ball. I get a 1-7 or 2-7 or even 2-8 break. As when I throw a curveball I get 12-8 or 12-7 break. They have really the same stress on the arm depending on how you throw each of them. And if you hold the “spike curve” or knuckle curve and throw it like a fast ball, you are more than likely to get a 4-seamer or slight cut fast ball as a result. In my opinion Hooton’s was a variation of a knuckle ball and just thrown with a fllick of the upper fingers to get alot of top spin. If you think about it, a knuckle ball is thrown with the fastball motion. So if he modified the knuckle ball and threw it the same, why should it be called the knuckle curve? His hand on the card to me, (I am a knuckle baller), looks like a grip of the knuckler. I don’t know but sounds like he was throwing a fast knuckler type pitch with alot of top spin.

All you have to do is hold the ball like Hooton is in the card and try to replicate his grip as best as possible and then upon release of the pitch flick the top fingers outwards. Remember to try and stay on top of the ball. Throw it just as you would your fastball. I think this may be the results you are talking about.

Here is a clip of Mussina’s knuckle curve, or as you would like to call it a “spike curve”. In my opinion the term “spike curve” is just an old name for it around the time this pitch was invented. Just my theories about this pitch. Hope you enjoy :slight_smile:


#14

One again, not everyone can throw that pitch or a splitter/forkball either.

You could also try the Mike Marshal way of throwing a curve where you dont lead with the heel of your hand as I understand it.

Ian


#15

Ian,

Would you mind if I asked if you could send a link or post a picture of this grip please?

                            Thank you, WhiteSox101 :P

#16

Anyone know how Burt Hooten threw his KN-Curve? Grip? Release?


#17

I’ve been throwing the knuckle-curve for almost 30 years … ever since I saw Hooton demonstrate it before a World Series game on TV.

Like any pitch, it takes a long time to learn and master, and it won’t hurt your arm because it is thrown with the same arm action as a fastball. The only difference is that you use two fingernails pressed against the ball to flick the ball out with topspin instead of backspin.

I have big hands and am able to use my index and middle fingers, but Hooton used his middle and ring fingers and rode the index and pinky along the sides of the ball for more control.

I’m really not sure why this pitch hasn’t been taught more, especially to young kids, as it’s less taxing on the arm than a curve yet can give you the same breaking action.

Email me through my website (onbaseball.com) if you want to learn more about the pitch.


#18

Thanks. That what I thought it was. How much topspin are we looking for? And howw much break should it have?


#19

Generally speaking, you want to get as much topspin / forward rotation as possible — the idea is to emulate a true 12-6 overhand curve without bending your wrist the way you do for a curve.

The break depends on how tight the rotation of the ball and your release point. It can be just a few inches or up to a foot and a half.

Also, it may break a little left or right (like a screwball) depending on how it comes off your fingers. Right now you want to work on the technique, but eventually you could theoretically get it to break all kinds of directions.


#20

Yeah, I was messing around with it the other day for the 2nd time this week as Burt Hooten threw it and I noticed about 7 out of 40 of them were in on a righty ( I am RHP). Sometimes when I threw it, I had large forkball looking pitches and splitter like pitches. Others came off of my hand with no spin because it bumped my had taking off all of the spin and turining it into a knuckleball. Should the spin be created all by just the fingers or is it natural to want to move the wrist forwads with the ball and fingers? I like this pitch and look foward to trying to make the most sucess out of it since I throw what most would call a “slurve” when I try to throw a curve. So if I could get a 12-6 drop on this and mix it with an ocassional knuckle ball and a fastball I think I could make somthing out of it if I learn how to throw it properly. I have a feel for this pitch and believe it has potential. Any other tips would be great thanks :slight_smile: .