Kenny rogers


#1

what do some of you guys think of the “dirty palm” of kenny rogers in game 2 of the world series, i think they should have looked closer at the palm to see whether or not it was dirt or possibly pine tar


#2

You can tell from the yellow tint that it is pine tar. He probably had his main stash on the heel of his glove (which is why he didn’t remove his glove during or after the game).

I also have a photo from his start on July 5, 2006 that shows the smudge and suggests that he is using the pine tar to alter the trajectory of the ball, which crosses the line IMHO.

I just hope they fix the problem before his next start.


#3

You can tell from the yellow tint that it is pine tar. He probably had his main stash on the heel of his glove (which is why he didn’t remove his glove during or after the game).

I also have a photo from his start on July 5, 2006 that shows the smudge and suggests that he is using the pine tar to alter the trajectory of the ball, which crosses the line IMHO.

I just hope they fix the problem before his next start.[/quote]man, this really puts a mark next to his great 23 scoreless inning streak, what if this turns into another barry bonds record type thing, where they talk about taking his record away cause of cheating


#4

The moment of opportunity has past. MLB simply cannot afford to do a thing now. A certain percentage will exhibit outrage, others will be cynical. He apparently hasn’t been called on it all year…I guess there were benefits in beating down that photog…he got the media to fear him from afar. Now it’s all just he said…Joe Schmo’s digital photo shows this and that blah blah…fodder for Jim Rommie and ESPN so they have chit chat for months.


#5

AND Gaylord Perry is STILL in the HALL!
How many times has everyone heard “if you ain’t cheatin you ain’t tryin”?
It’s all of our collective fault…just now how do you fix it?


#6

I’ve heard of pine tar on a bat but a palm? What does this really do? I haven’t seen nor heard of this before.


#7

I think in professional baseball, everyone is doing whatever they can to get an advantage over someone else. It’s not just “sports” and “fair play” guys. It’s each player’s bread and butter.

I have a feeling that many pitchers use it and I bet the Cardinals pitchers use it too and that is why LaRussa didn’t take it any further. That said, it was a little suspicious. But let’s not forget, it was gone after the first inning and he STILL dominated.


#8

I think the whole thing is overblown. Pine tar is not used to put extra movement on the ball, it is simply for a better grip. It’s actually a common practice around baseball, even though it is illegal. However it is the same as using a resin bag. Had there been sandpaper, nail filer, etc. involved, then the ball flight would be altered, but pine tar is for grip and I for one could care less if he used it.


#9

I can almost bet every pitcher uses something to get a little extra somethin on the ball.

just happen to pick up a rock while your rubbbin the ball with dirt, and just accidentally scuff the ball.

accidentally touch a pie tar rag with your pitching hands while moving it so you can sit down.

Just a few examples :o

But I can almost bet all pitchers do something at one point in their pitching career when you just dont feel it


#10

[quote=“KennyRobertson”]
I bet the Cardinals pitchers use it too …[/quote]

I doubt that very seriously.


#11

Yeah, I think everyone is mistaken if they believe this is a rare occurence, lol.

Everyone want an edge. I’m not approving up it necessarily but I think it’s commonplace.

I have to add, I just heard espn coin the term.

PinetarGate.

Thought that was funny.


#12

this is a very serious issue though, do hitters cheat, they can use steriods, but, what if they dont, its an unfair advantage for the pitcher, im a pitcher and i never have done or tried to do something to this extent, i feel you should pitch without any help, their professionals! they should be able to pitch and hit without cheating


#13

heh, for the life of me, I can’t remember the name of the pitcher, but there was a pitcher back in the day who’d wear his wedding ring on the mound, and use it to slit the balls to get more movement lol… I’ll remember the name eventually.


#14

[quote=“LFRoberts5”][quote=“KennyRobertson”]
I bet the Cardinals pitchers use it too …[/quote]

I doubt that very seriously.[/quote]

I don’t doubt it…seriously.

Hey Tanner, you have a point in your post. But I don’t know why a pitcher couldn’t use pine tar to get a better grip. We do want to see each player at his best right? I don’t want to see the ball slipping out of the guy’s hand every other pitch.


#15

[quote=“KennyRobertson”][quote=“LFRoberts5”][quote=“KennyRobertson”]
I bet the Cardinals pitchers use it too …[/quote]

I doubt that very seriously.[/quote]

I don’t doubt it…seriously.

Hey Tanner, you have a point in your post. But I don’t know why a pitcher couldn’t use pine tar to get a better grip. We do want to see each player at his best right? I don’t want to see the ball slipping out of the guy’s hand every other pitch.[/quote] because its illegal! its not a legal thing to do…its just like using steriods…and it shouldnt be used by any pitcher to help them, their best without breaking the rules is the best they can do


#16

Snake…that would be Whitey Ford for fifty.
Tanner, corked bats, how bout the gob of tape (And weight) that Sosa used to have on the cap of his bat (That sped up the bat head).
You are right of course, in a perfect world it would be skill against skill. It just isn’t a perfect world. We pour 'billions" of dollars, into sports, T.V. has the same amount of investment, not to mention Nike, Rawlings, Louiscille Slugger, et. al… We make em more than human. How can mear mortals face up to this and not at some point fall to corruption? Remember when Sosa had his corked bat? Well I had this theory that I ran by a major leaguer, he said I was 100% correct. it was this, Sammy was facing a world that adored him, he and McGuire had “saved baseball”. Most people don’t remember that he had just sustained what I would term "the worst head shot hbp ever. He was dealing with a toe injury also and went into a profound slump. Now using the corker to get off the schnide was rhe risk Sosa felt was worth the possible ramification. Was money his motivation? nah he bought into his superhuman press and didn’t want to be exposed as a mortal that could be brought down by such a thing…Though he showed the whole world his fear when Josh Beckett threw high and inside to him in the NLCS (Gaurantee you this was the turning point in that series, Sosa wasn’t a factor again for the rest of his career). Don’t know Rogers motivation but I suspect he was looking for a little bite on the sinker he’s been throwing this year, but you can bet that money is the reason it’s swept under the rug, “lowest ratings”, 23+ scoreless streak…you bet MLB and TV are gonna have Kenny Rogers pitch the 6th game if they can get to it. Shoot the story line itself will get ratings back to where they are “supposed” to be. We push for super-human performance and act shocked when these people can’t stand up to the pressure. Rogers isn’t a sob story, it is a reality story, if he was caught, 10 game immediate suspension, fines and hated more than he was after he put the big slap on that guy. He was willing to risk it based on the fact that he has been doing it all year (Just like Sosa and the gob of weight/tape at the cap of is bat).
Just one other thing, the News media and MLB just love the outrage and contraversy…refer to the statement about ratings on that one.


#17

[quote=“jdfromfla”]Snake…that would be Whitey Ford for fifty.
Tanner, corked bats, how bout the gob of tape (And weight) that Sosa used to have on the cap of his bat (That sped up the bat head).
You are right of course, in a perfect world it would be skill against skill. It just isn’t a perfect world. We pour 'billions" of dollars, into sports, T.V. has the same amount of investment, not to mention Nike, Rawlings, Louiscille Slugger, et. al… We make em more than human. How can mear mortals face up to this and not at some point fall to corruption? Remember when Sosa had his corked bat? Well I had this theory that I ran by a major leaguer, he said I was 100% correct. it was this, Sammy was facing a world that adored him, he and McGuire had “saved baseball”. Most people don’t remember that he had just sustained what I would term "the worst head shot hbp ever. He was dealing with a toe injury also and went into a profound slump. Now using the corker to get off the schnide was rhe risk Sosa felt was worth the possible ramification. Was money his motivation? nah he bought into his superhuman press and didn’t want to be exposed as a mortal that could be brought down by such a thing…Though he showed the whole world his fear when Josh Beckett threw high and inside to him in the NLCS (Gaurantee you this was the turning point in that series, Sosa wasn’t a factor again for the rest of his career). Don’t know Rogers motivation but I suspect he was looking for a little bite on the sinker he’s been throwing this year, but you can bet that money is the reason it’s swept under the rug, “lowest ratings”, 23+ scoreless streak…you bet MLB and TV are gonna have Kenny Rogers pitch the 6th game if they can get to it. Shoot the story line itself will get ratings back to where they are “supposed” to be. We push for super-human performance and act shocked when these people can’t stand up to the pressure. Rogers isn’t a sob story, it is a reality story, if he was caught, 10 game immediate suspension, fines and hated more than he was after he put the big slap on that guy. He was willing to risk it based on the fact that he has been doing it all year (Just like Sosa and the gob of weight/tape at the cap of is bat).
Just one other thing, the News media and MLB just love the outrage and contraversy…refer to the statement about ratings on that one.[/quote]sosa is one, but if your trying to tell me that eckstein is corking bats and cheating, and the same with the rest of the cards starting lineup, thats different, hes cheating by pitching with pinetar, i know for a fact that none of the cardinals players or tigers players are using corked bats because they check them in the world series, so rogers did cheat when he used pinetar, corked bats are out pretty much, steriods…maybe, pujols is really the only one id think would have a even a thought for the cards


#18

The point my soon to be very large Iowan, is that they will do what they will do. Cards pitchers will use what they can get away with and Tiger guys will too. Have you not heard the discussion about it not being made a huge deal by La Russa because his pitchers are acting in similar ways?
It’s a business, receipts are lagging, in politics they call it wagging the dog. Their best interests are served by it being not only a great meeting of titans competitively (That hasn’t been enough since old Gates Brown had his knees buckled by one of Bob Gibson’s extrordinary sliders). If you remember we started having gimmicks in WS after that, “Miracle Met’s” Charlie Finley and the “Mod” A’s, “Big Red Machine”, Mr. October, blah blah blah the competition isn’t enough, why do you think the Super Bowl let all those dirty old men get a peek at ol Janet Jackson? Ain’t got a stinkin thing to do with the competition…no sir notta.
As for Eckstien, well all of my previous statements don’t mean that “virtuous” people won’t attempt to play fairly, they will, some will fail, this is the way life is. It just isn’t realistic to expect that this game at this level won’t entice people to move outside of fair. Some will get caught and be scorned (Barry Bonds, Sammy) some will be pitied (Giambi, Ken Caminiti), some will be celebrated (Gaylord Perry, Whitey Ford), all just depends on who needs a story and what that story needs to do.
I forgot to add that some won’t get caught.


#19

[quote=“jdfromfla”]The point my soon to be very large Iowan, is that they will do what they will do. Cards pitchers will use what they can get away with and Tiger guys will too. Have you not heard the discussion about it not being made a huge deal by La Russa because his pitchers are acting in similar ways?
It’s a business, receipts are lagging, in politics they call it wagging the dog. Their best interests are served by it being not only a great meeting of titans competitively (That hasn’t been enough since old Gates Brown had his knees buckled by one of Bob Gibson’s extrordinary sliders). If you remember we started having gimmicks in WS after that, “Miracle Met’s” Charlie Finley and the “Mod” A’s, “Big Red Machine”, Mr. October, blah blah blah the competition isn’t enough, why do you think the Super Bowl let all those dirty old men get a peek at ol Janet Jackson? Ain’t got a stinkin thing to do with the competition…no sir notta.
As for Eckstien, well all of my previous statements don’t mean that “virtuous” people won’t attempt to play fairly, they will, some will fail, this is the way life is. It just isn’t realistic to expect that this game at this level won’t entice people to move outside of fair. Some will get caught and be scorned (Barry Bonds, Sammy) some will be pitied (Giambi, Ken Caminiti), some will be celebrated (Gaylord Perry, Whitey Ford), all just depends on who needs a story and what that story needs to do.
I forgot to add that some won’t get caught.[/quote]yeah yeah, i wasn’t saying your wrong, but, i think our main difference of opinion is that i think its cheating and you think its part of the game, which i can understand, but, if everyone does, does that mean its right?


#20

It isn’t right, not what I teach, but symptomatic of our society. I just urge you to continue to stand on those principles, maybe in a few years, kids you and I and Roger and Steve and BaseballBum and even O’Leary teach will know that it isn’t all about self, it’s about sacrifice of self. The problem is that this position isn’t sexy or scintillating, won’t put butts in seats or eyeballs on the screen like cheap gimmicks or shortcuts.