Japanese Double-Spin Mechanics

I remember when there was all the buzz about the Gyroball that there was talk of the Double-Spin Mechanics that are taught in Japan. I know that the Double-Spin refers to the rate at which you rotate the hips and pronate your arm, but I was wondering if anyone knew anything more than that. Apparently they say that Dice-K has great double-spin mechanics.

First, the gyroball doesn’t exist.

Second, any good pitcher who pronates their pitches uses double-spin mechanics.

They are nothing unique.

I’ll have to agree with that it seems like ‘double-spin’ mechanics just place extra emphasis on pronation.

edit: I posted my original response in the wrong thread so…
I read this article. It was interesting
http://www.robneyer.com/book_04_gyroball.html

Why doesn’t it exist?
The pitch that Will Carroll incorrectly formulated to be a gyroball, sure that doesn’t exist.

But why isn’t a pitch that spins like a slider yet doesn’t break and is as hard as a four seam, not a pitch?

I mean I have seen film of guys looking absolutely laughable because they swing for an outer half pitch and it goes under their hands. That doesn’t happen with a hanging slider, those things usually go somewhere up in the bleachers…

Edit:

[quote=“Spencer”]I read this article. It was interesting
http://www.robneyer.com/book_04_gyroball.html[/quote]
I’m quite certain that Carroll later came out and said the beliefs he had when he wrote the article were pretty much way off. It might even be a post on the forum here, I cannot remember. I believe he has fully recognized a gyroball actually doesn’t move at all. I’ll try and see if I can find where I read that.

Yes the article was a little outdated but it had some stuff on ‘double-spin’ mechanics and more. It was interesting. I’ll be googling more.

Supposedly some pro players use a ‘hanging’ slider to their advantage in the majors already so it’s nothing new…

[quote=“Spencer”]Yes the article was a little outdated but it had some stuff on ‘double-spin’ mechanics and more. It was interesting. I’ll be googling more.
[/quote]
Oh I agree, I spent a long long time researching to find whatever possible on the gyro and double-spin mechanics.
Overall i turned out disappointed with an overall lack of significance.

In baseball things have often been done before, just not yet given a fancy name lol.

Yeah I have two new pitches, the Terminator and the Eliminator

[i]"Oh I agree, I spent a long long time researching to find whatever possible on the gyro and double-spin mechanics.
Overall i turned out disappointed with an overall lack of significance.

In baseball things have often been done before, just not yet given a fancy name lol."[/i]

CF did some of the best research on this…
The slider you speak is called a “backup slider” and I’ve seen a few work it. As a matter of fact I was forulating a thread dealing with that particular pitch and it’s effectiveness…specifically when you have a decent to good slide piece to compliment it…just hadn’t gotten to the point of it yet…maybe next year :bigroll:

[quote=“jdfromfla”]CF did some of the best research on this…
The slider you speak is called a “backup slider” and I’ve seen a few work it. As a matter of fact I was forulating a thread dealing with that particular pitch and it’s effectiveness…specifically when you have a decent to good slide piece to compliment it…just hadn’t gotten to the point of it yet…maybe next year :bigroll:[/quote]

A backup slider, or a slider that moves the other way, is a screwball.

No it isn’t Chris, a screwgie is a pronated pitch (I threw it with a 3 finger grip…just like Fernando who was an item when I was an impressionable left handed slacker back in the day) and a backup slider, like a slider is a fb variant.

Which way does it move?

Arm side or glove side?

[quote=“centerfield2150”][quote=“Chris O’Leary”]
First, the gyroball doesn’t exist.
[/quote]
Why doesn’t it exist?
The pitch that Will Carroll incorrectly formulated to be a gyroball, sure that doesn’t exist.

But why isn’t a pitch that spins like a slider yet doesn’t break and is as hard as a four seam, not a pitch?

I mean I have seen film of guys looking absolutely laughable because they swing for an outer half pitch and it goes under their hands. That doesn’t happen with a hanging slider, those things usually go somewhere up in the bleachers…

Edit:

[quote=“Spencer”]I read this article. It was interesting
http://www.robneyer.com/book_04_gyroball.html[/quote]
I’m quite certain that Carroll later came out and said the beliefs he had when he wrote the article were pretty much way off. It might even be a post on the forum here, I cannot remember. I believe he has fully recognized a gyroball actually doesn’t move at all. I’ll try and see if I can find where I read that.[/quote]

The closest thing to a gyroball is a back up slider. There is no human that can put enough force on the ball with their fingers on the side of the ball, which is how the gyro is thrown, for it to have spiral spin AND travel in a straight, no-break path. I’m just throwing out a number, but you’d probably have to throw a gyroball 100+ MPH for it to not break, or have little break, AND have the spiral spin.

A bullet-spin is much easier achieved by, what else, a bullet. Or a football. A baseball is sphere-shaped and it’s aerodynamics won’t allow it to travel in a straight path AND have bullet/spiral spin.

Backup sliders exist though. Although the ones I have seen are around the same speed as regular sliders. More often than not it’s still a hanging slider. The reason hitters get fooled is because they’re expecting it to break out of the zone, then realize it’s still in the zone and decide to swing at it anyway.

“The reason hitters get fooled is because they’re expecting it to break out of the zone, then realize it’s still in the zone and decide to swing at it anyway.”

This is exactly right Chris, the backup is a very nuanced pitch because at release, instead of putting the intense spin that causes the slide piece to do its nasty break, you still have the same rotation just let off it…thusly at the spot it normally breaks…it doesn’t and stays tracking more like a in riding two seamer, the batter sees the spin dot and thinks its a normal slider and just can’t adjust when it doesn’t break.