Important stuff

okay first off guys how do you delete threads. I don’t want to spam too many threads on here. But so many off you answer my questions with great responses. So i keep coming back. :smiley:

Anyways i got a question to ask and something else on my mind. Number 1 i have actually been clocked with a stalker gun. And it says i pitch 80-82mph. I am 17 this year and 5’10 and 170pounds. I am still growing though. Cause one of my relatives was 6’2. Anyways i was wondering whether or not DICK MILLS is right or wrong about long toss. Cause i seen him coaching this kid on you tube. The kid was 14 years old throwing 80mph. And i was like damn. Either that kid is an all star or dick mills is the coach to be. Anyways he says long toss is no good and ruins mechanics. IS he right or wrong.

Also the only way i do my long toss is with ALAN JAEGERS LONG TOSS PROGRAM. Were you use arm circles, then rubber tubing, then you slow stretch your arm out and different distances. I found that it has really helped. But i am kind of skeptical just cause dick mills says you shouldn’t do it. Like honestly I want to do it mon,wed, fri. But if he says its not good then i don’t want to do it.

So should i do long toss or not. And is throwing long toss monday, wed, fri okay and doing 30-50 bullpen tuesday and thursday okay.

Also does leg strengthening with heavy weights increase or decrease your velocity because of your fast and slow twitch muscles. Should i do this or should i just run sprints 5 times a week. Please help me with these 2 questions.
Thanks guys.

We try not to delete threads because it messes up the discussion when one person up the chain deletes a post… So there’s no need to delete and feel free to keep asking away! That’s what this is here for :slight_smile:

All I can say about Dick Mills is that he’s a controversial figure. Some of what he says makes sense for some pitchers, while other things—well, one will disagree with him. Like long toss. I’ve watched pitchers in spring training do it, and to my way of thinking it’s perfectly all right, because it does stretch out the arm. And it has nothing to do with mechanics, believe me. Just don’t overdo it.
You say that in all probability you have not yet reached your full growth, because other members of your family are over six feet. So you’re likely to end up 6’2" or 6’3" . There’s nothing the matter with that. No doubt your mechanics will change somewhat as you shoot up those few inches, so you make the necessary adjustments, and this is where a good pitching coach can help. You can imagine what Randy Johnson was going through as he shot up and up and up, until he reached his height of 6’10"! :slight_smile: So don’t worry about that.
And for Pete’s sake, don’t say that you’re spamming these boards! You are not. You have questions like everyone else who posts here, and as Steve Ellis says there are more than 9000 assorted pitchers and pitching coaches ready and willing to help. So if you have questions, don’t be afraid to ask. That’s what we’re here for. 8)

About Mills’ aversion to long toss, what you have to remember about Mills is that he, in my estimation, makes statements that have some element of logic in them but throws them out there with a style that is irksome in order to illicit strong responses. This, of course, can become a marketing strategy for him, setting him apart from the rest. His comments about long toss come from his focus on training specificity. As usual, he has a nugget of truth here but takes it waaaay too far, as is his tendency.

In this case, he has a point in how long toss is not going to help you “pitch”, as opposed to “throw”. Release points are different, as is overall body positioning and timing of elements. So, no, long toss won’t help you hit targets from a mound. It won’t “hone the skill” of that specific action we call “pitching”.

As for velocity boosting, his claim is that, because of all of the differences between pitching and throwing long toss, any gains made will benefit you only for more long toss and won’t transfer to the act of pitching. This is where I disagree with him, as do most people. You use your core and torso in long toss in a manner that is very similar, although not identical, to pitching. I’d hesitate to say that there is NO transfer of benefit. There was a gentleman on here a while back, CADad, who described well how long toss can be used to gauge effort by relating it to distance. Also, nobody is suggesting that you ONLY do long toss. It’s good for what it’s good for. Yes, hone your “pitching” skills on the mound, that’s very important, but you can use other sorts of training methods for overall body conditioning and strength.

Mills wants you to hone your pitching skills by making your training as close as possible to the environment you’ll be in when you have to perform for real. Thus, there is direct, 100% transfer of trained skills to the performance. It’s similar to why golfers often have difficulties transferring great driving range shots to their rounds on a course. Not enough specificity of training. Mills is absolutely correct about specificity being a good thing but he takes it to extremes, as he so often does. It’s part of his marketing strategy.

thanks alot guys. So is long toss monday, wednesday, friday good for my arm. And pitching a bullpen tuesday and thursday. Our season starts in about 3 weeks. I have been playing since about the middle of february lol.

[quote=“fireball999”]
. . . The kid was 14 years old throwing 80mph. And i was like damn. Either that kid is an all star or dick mills is the coach to be. Anyways he says long toss is no good and ruins mechanics. IS he right or wrong.[/quote]

Genetics probably has much to do with a 14 yo throwing 80mph. I don’t think it’s beneficial to put much stock in how someone else is doing, 'cause everyone is different. Focus on proper mechanics and balanced strengthening. My 10 yo throws in the mid 60s and can dangle his feet behind his neck. He learned both without any coaching.

BTW, we do long toss all the time because he likes to throw the ball far, plus he would pitch every day if the weather or dad permitted it. It hasn’t hurt his throwing or his pitching. Last year he threw out a runner trying to score from 2nd base on a line drive to the gap. He cut the ball off, turned and threw the runner out. The throw reach the catcher on the fly. I see no objectives to long throws.

Long tossing daily is fine - just adjust the amount according to your other workload. I’d put another day or two between those two bullpens.