We have a new junior high coach this year. When I met him, I asked that he not pitch my 14 year old son over 85 pitches in a game. The first game, Monday, he throws 86 pitches thru 6 innings & then has him start the 7th ending up with 99 pitches. I give him the benefit of the doubt, thinking that he just wants him to get the complete game. The next night, he has another pitcher throw 142 pitches & has my son catch. Neither of these boys pitch til Friday. My son starts & he has him throw 120+ pitches. I about have a conniption fit, however, I maintain my composure & let it go. The next week, the coach has a baby & misses a couple games, however, both boys get some work. On Monday of this week, he has the 2nd pitcher pitch around 135-140 pitches. The next two games, my boy closes & throws 15 to 30 pitches each. My son is scheduled to throw tonight. What bothers me, at last nights game, he told me that boys this age(12-14) should be able to throw 120 pitches without any trouble. :roll: It is my understanding, that the second pitcher’s Dad instructed him to complain of arm pain after he throws 75+/- pitches. How should I handle this with my son?
that is way to much pitching. major leagueers never throw 140 there maybe 100-120 and there pros
What i would do is if my coach did that would be talk to a friend near the coach and say “man my arm is getting pretty sore” loud enough for him to hear, and when i would pitch the next inning dont follow through all the way to make it look like your to tired to finish your pitches
really, just go out there and ask him to be comprehensive and to not overuse your son.
Either your kid or you need to take some action. Failure to act will result in regret down the road.
Check out these recommendations from ASMI and USA Baseball:
Also watch this video with Dr. James Andrews:
You can also Google “pitcher abuse points”. It’s a debatable topic but its existence says the issues exist.
Educate yourself to present a better case. Be aware that pitching one day and playing catcher the next is a bad idea because catchers make as many throws as pitchers. Teach all of this to your son so he is in a better position to protect his own arm. You can even share this info with other parents to help protect them.
The coach may be an idiot. Or he may just be uneducated himself so give him the benefit of the doubt and approach him as if his is simply uneducated. But be firm. After all, you did already ask him to limit your son’s pitch count. Offer to share the info you’ve learned with him to help educate him.
First of all let me preface this by saying your son and all the pitchers are being over used. I am not sure how I would handle the situation. I might get the feelings of some of the other pitcher’s parents and approach the coach as a group. Not confrontational, but try to understand his rationale. Realize by doing this your son might not pitch at all.
Most middle/high school coaches don’t really care about the opinions of parents. My son’s soccer coach actually sent home a orientation sheet which included the comment that “Parental comments are respected but not encouraged”. They act like they care but they really don’t and you may be doing more harm than good with respect to play time. On the flip side if he could seriously injure his arm. I understand their position in that their jobs are on the line based on their won-loss record, but in the case of pitching the long term health of the player is a legitimate parental concern.
[quote=“Roger”]Either your kid or you need to take some action. Failure to act will result in regret down the road.
Check out these recommendations from ASMI and USA Baseball:
I normally strongly disagree with these pitch counts (they’re usually far too conservative IMO) but they look very reasonable, especially when you consider the poor arm strength/fitness of most teenage pitchers coming into a season without having thrown a single baseball over 60 feet :roll:
Sorry for the tangent; just remembering my days as a HS coach. Parents and players actually had complaints of the opposite problem compared to the original post here! I pitched guys for 40-45 pitches per game at the most because they simply weren’t fit enough to even sniff the recommended maximums issued by Little League or other organizations.
aa teammate of mine was overused as a kid. It was really detrimental to not only his arm, but how he viewed the game. Once he was on our legion team he recovered quite a bit and was pitching again his last year.
One day I was watching my pitching coach—Ed Lopat, a mainstay of the Yankees’ Big Three rotation of the late 40s to the mid-50s—conduct a workshop for a bunch of high-school pitchers, and I noticed that he was spending a good deal of time with one kid who was having some serious issues with his pitching. It turned out that this kid, a high-school junior, had a coach who could best be described as “a child’s garden of misinformation”. This—uh—coach had been feeding him all kinds of wrong stuff, forcing him to throw over the top which was not his natural delivery, saying that he had no business even thinking about a slider, and overusing him—and the kid was seriously considering giving up on the game altogether. Lopat went right after the problem. He got the kid into a state of deep relaxation, questioned him about these matters, and then talked quietly to him and set him straight on things. At the end he made a sudden motion with his hand as if squashing a bug and said, “And this is what you do with a mosquito.” I had to chuckle as I imagined a know-nothing coach being squashed like a mosquito.
I would have to say that this coach to whom you refer is indeed an idiot, and he has to be handled as such. And if this idiot refuses to listen—find another coach, that’s all there is to it. A kid learning how to pitch needs advice, assistance and encouragement, not unending squashing and being told no, no, no.
I will never forget the day I first met Lopat. It was after a game in which he outpitched Bob Lemon and beat the Indians 2-1, and I just wanted to ask him something about the slider—a pitch I had been wondering about all season. Lopat’s response was to draw me aside and take several minutes to show me how to throw a good one. That led to his becoming my pitching coach for almost four years, and what I learned from him was nothing short of priceless; he knew where I was coming from and that I really wanted to know and was willing to work at it, and he helped me become a better pitcher than I had been before. 8)
I agree with most comments, & that is why I posted this. I lucked out Friday in that, we were facing a week team & my son was pulled after four innings & one hit. He brought in a younger pitcher for one inning. He then proceeded to bring in the other pitcher which had thrown 140+ pitches earlier in the week. The kids dad stopped it, & a younger pitcher was brought in. Their was a discussion between the coach & dad after the game. I haven’t had a chance to talk to him.
What this coach is doing is plain and simple abuse. There is no way a middle school kid should be subject to these kind of pitch counts with this frequence. I would say that no HS kid - even a senior - should throw 140 pitches in a game. Parents should generally stay away from school coaches and what goes on - except in areas involving the health of their kid. This is definetely one of those cases. You need to tell the coach that his pitch counts are WAY to high and that your kid will go 85 pitches in an outing or you will take him off the team.
And then take him off the team if the coach continues this. If you don’t, your son will never make it though 4 years of HS. This is so obviously abusive and you really need to step in - period.
Actually, “idiot” is too mild a term for that so-called coach. What I would really like to call someone like that I can’t print here because it would blow a hole in my computer and set fire to the hard drive… So I’ll just say that someone like that has no business being a coach anywhere in the system. :shock:
Maybe the involvement of the other pitcher’s dad will have the desired effect and you won’t have to talk to the coach yourself. But I’d still keep a short leash on that coach.
This is my exact thoughts. I talked with the other Dad, & I believe He enlightened the Coach, however, time will tell. The other kid is scheduled to start Thursday, & I expect my son to catch. If everything has been corrected, my son should come in about the fifth or sixth inning. I realize pitching after catching is not ideal & should be discouraged. I look at it much better than having either of the boys pitch 120+ pitches.
This is such a nightmare scenario for any kid. I’ve never treated my athletes like this and I have no idea what I’d do as a parent.
I want to say that you pull the kid and confront the coach, but what’s the best way to do this?
[quote=“kyleb”]This is such a nightmare scenario for any kid. I’ve never treated my athletes like this and I have no idea what I’d do as a parent.
I want to say that you pull the kid and confront the coach, but what’s the best way to do this?[/quote]
Fortunately, I believe the other kids dad got the point across. He was pulled after the 4th inning throwing 90 pitches. (threw 25 in the 4th) & giving up 1 run on one hit. We have three games left before post season, so hopefully this is behind us.
You might wish to read what the medical experts say:
The bigger question is why is your child and all the others (pitchers) playing in competition in September or in the fall or in the winter! This is ridiculous for this age group that all have open growth plates in their elbows shoulders and to throw ballistically in adrenalin filled competitions year round. Even HS kids that are doing this do not ever get fit correctly by always trying to be ready to compete rather than being able to go into training regression so that they can make physiological leaps from overload hypertrophy.
This is why all pitchers are actually not fit to pitch in the Spring and summer. They are always trying to be ready for the next camp, tryout, showcase or competition. The way the baseball establishment has directed this is mind boggleing and wrong headed.
You guys (all the pitchers parents) need to have a pow wow and dictate to the coach or then principle what is going to happen with your children not what this moron coach thinks should happen. This bully is like many type A personalities that need to be confronted in no uncertain terms and set straight. If the principle or the coach do not have the sense to do something about it then leave this team, it will make no difference in his future. He may actually have a chance to train correctly.
Southern Illinois Junior High School has fall baseball. The tournaments usually end around the first of October. Three + months off for basketball, for what I have read is adequate rest as well as conditioning. He will then start throwing in February. Very few games will be played before May, & pitch counts in his spring & summer are closely monitored.
As far as the coach, he appears to have changed, however, he will be closely monitored.