Hip/Shoulder seperation and velocity NPA view

This is an article from the NPA saying that 80% of MPH comes from Hip/Shoulder seperation and that 20% of mph comes from legs or direction.

http://www.active.com/story.cfm?CATEGORY=baseball&STORY_ID=13100&RESET=0&NUM=1&CHECKSSO=1

Also this is a short part of the article.

Hips/Shoulders

[b]Our research has indicated 80% of ball velocity is generated by rotational momentum when:

Hips and shoulders separate between 40� - 60� around an upright spine.
Hips and shoulders maintain their angle of separation as long as strength and flexibility will allow while total body tracks forward into landing foot.
Throwing shoulder/glove shoulder delay rotation until hips have slowed/stopped their rotation.
Scapular “loading” is allowed to be an unconscious accommodation that helps the throwing shoulder to stabilize and compensate for the weight of the throwing arm/ baseball as they change direction and snap from external rotation into release point.
Spine/Torso

Our research has indicated 20% of ball velocity is generated by directional momentum when:

Total body tracks head and spine on line in the exact direction created by shifting weight from posting foot to landing foot.
Low back/spine hyperextend to keep torso upright and stacked as shoulders square up and track into a flexed and firm front leg.
Glove swivels and stabilizes over front foot as throwing arm lays back in external rotation.
Low back/spine goes into flexion just before throwing forearm snaps straight into release point. [/b]

Tell me what you think.

Also I have one question

Mound vs Flat ground what mechanics would have greater Hip/Shoulder separation I have all way’s wanted to know.

[quote=“RIstar”]Also I have one question.

Mound vs Flat ground what mechanics would have greater Hip/Shoulder separation I have all way’s wanted to know.[/quote]
What will you do with this information, if it’s even possible to determine it? Suffice it to say that there are significant total body timing differences between the two that make flat ground throwing less effective for honing the skill of throwing from a mound.

[quote=“dm59”][quote=“RIstar”]Also I have one question.

Mound vs Flat ground what mechanics would have greater Hip/Shoulder separation I have all way’s wanted to know.[/quote]
What will you do with this information, if it’s even possible to determine it? Suffice it to say that there are significant total body timing differences between the two that make flat ground throwing less effective for honing the skill of throwing from a mound.[/quote]

Flatground hones the mind and conditions the arm.

I understand dm.

Also Dm and other what do you think about the 80% hip/shoulder separtation and 20% momentum/direction in involvment{sp} to pitchers MPH?

[quote=“Spencer”]Flatground … conditions the arm.[/quote]Yup.

[quote=“Spencer”]Flatground hones the mind…[/quote]???

You practice picking a target and hitting a target. Maddux and his brother used to throw rocks at stuff to see who could hit a spot first IIRC.

Well, those are just numbers. I have a hard time believing that everything is that cut and dry.

It also can be argued that momentum can cause for better hip and shoulder seperation. Therefore making momentum more important than the 20% it was given…

I will say I do believe that by gaining distance and direction as well as seperation with a strong core can create power. All numbers aside.

Ok guys I understand the flat ground part throw on a mound.

Also you hammer you bring up a good point that more momentum could bring more hip/shoulder seperation but it’s not an absolute. But I’m going to keep doing my core workout and yoga so that I can get more flexibale and strong and produce more power.

nothing’s an absolute in pitching, not even those percentages you just gave us.

Well there not my exact % there the NPA’s %

My % would go a little more momentum and little less Hip/shoulder separation.

75% hip/shoulder separation
25% momentum/direction

BUT NOTHING IS AN ABSOLUTE

The 80/20 numbers from the NPA are averages. The NPA conducted an experiment whereby they compared pitchers’ velocity throwing on their knees to their velocity throwing on their feet. Putting pitchers on their knees eliminates the directional momentum that comes from the stride. The pitchers set their knees and hips at an angle to the target that approximates the angle of hip and shoulder separation they normally get on their feet. Thus, the pitchers only have hip and shoulder separation and shoulder rotation available to throw with. On their knees, the pitchers were on average able to hit about 80% of their maximum, on-their-feet velocity. And this was true for all age groups that were tested.

That’s a pretty surprisingly high number for throwing from their knees. I have an extremely hard time believing I could throw at 80% velocity from my knees. But I guess an average is an average.

try it

if the 80/20 is correct, it would also assume that you use your trunk and core in the same manner on your knees as you do on your feet.

do you think you use it the same on your knees during the test as you do when you test.

this is a null hypothesis question from statistics.

for example, coke changed their recipie and made it sweeter calling it new coke a few years back. they did this based on a sip test using old coke and pepsi (which is sweeter). on the sip test, pepsi scored higher than coke (more people liked it). coke came out with the sweeter new coke and it was a flop. something was wrong.

they went back and did the test again and had participants drink a whole can of coke, then a whole can of pepsi. then they liked coke better. there was a difference when you compared them using the amount you purchase at the store.

sometimes tests and drills change what you are doing and it’s not the same.

towel drill - does it change things
weighted balls?

long toss vs throwing to a target always

throwing on flat ground vs a mound. nolan ryan doesn’t think it’s a problem, mills thinks it is. who are you going to listen to.

just bring these up because we wrestle with the best way to train and sometimes we do things without really thinking about what we’re doing.

i don’t think you can go wrong throwing a regulation baseball with good (not necessarily perfect) technique without pain. the other stuff needs to be thought out.

re: "nolan ryan doesn’t think it’s a problem, mills thinks it is. who are you going to listen to. "

-------You’re kidding, right?